• Aug 9th 2010 at 7:54AM
  • 54

Just days after reporting that at least one Chevrolet dealer said that eager buyers will have to fork over an additional $20,000 to get their hands on Chevy's highly anticipated Volt, the My Nissan Leaf forum is now suggesting that Leaf buyers may actually be able to drive off the lot in the much-hyped electric car for less than MSRP. Yep, you read it right: below the $32,780 ($25,280 after federal incentives) MSRP and as far as we can tell, there are no strings attached to this deal.

The guys over at My Nissan Leaf have been in contact with numerous Nissan dealers across the country and, while almost all of them stated that they will sell the Leaf at MSRP, a couple committed to dropping the price by as much as $1,000. This news virtually puts an end to any thought of price gouging coming from the Nissan camp and makes the Leaf an even better bargain – at selected dealers at least.

So, why would the Nissan Leaf drop below MSRP when at least one Chevy dealer insists that a markup on the Volt may be necessary? Well, as Nissan's director of product planning for North America, Mark Perry, stated before, "The difference in the distribution process is, it's not an allocation to the dealer, it's a customer order, so [the customers] have the control." And if the customer can choose which dealership to purchase their Leaf from, then the competition amongst dealers is likely to be fierce as each wants a crack at the sale. Go ahead and take a glance at the My Nissan Leaf forum, which is updated with additional dealers daily, to see if your local Nissan dealership makes the list of those willing to slash prices on the Leaf. Hat tip to EVNow!

[Source: My Nissan Leaf]

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    • 1 Second Ago
      • 8 Months Ago
      I think Nissan realizes that the Leaf is a niche product at best, not even in the same league as the Volt.

      It's really just a nice golf cart, like all the other battery powered cars that have been made over the last 100 years.
        • 8 Months Ago
        The Spanish government planned to sell 2000 subsidized Reva electric cars in 2010. So far they've sold 16.


        I think the Leaf is a better electric vehicle than the Reva, but it will not enjoy strong sales due to the exact same limitations that have been killing electric cars since 1902.

        Don't plan on much Interstate driving, the Leaf will go only about 50 miles at highway speeds.


        • 8 Months Ago
        Wow, that's a really interesting view there. What exactly do you base it on?
        • 8 Months Ago
        Jim...you make me laugh with your ignorance. If you are too lazy to do your homework, please talk about things you actually know about. You're the first person on here that has NO idea about the LEAF. The more you talk about it, the more ignorant you sound. As far as the fud about 'range anxiety', 90% of drivers drive less than 100 miles a day. And if they need to go farther, there will be OVER 1200 charging stations in each of the rollout states. Along the interstates, there will be 'fast' chargers that will charge the car in about 15-30 mins. depending on how much you have used. These will be in place BEFORE the cars are delivered. So put that range anxiety up your polluted tailpipe! While YOU and others are buying PREMIUM GASOLINE for the Volt and giving the terrorists and BIG OIL monies, we LEAF owners will be charging at home with our pvs on the roof saving our enviroment and putting the screws to terrorists and the oil companies. :)
        • 8 Months Ago
        Wood's Phaeton:
        'Wood's Phaeton, had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000. '

        This compares to the Leaf's 100 mile range, 90 mph top speed, and cost of $33k against the $54k of the Wood's inflation adjusted.

        That is pretty much as close a comparison as your statement that they both take hours to recharge, when a fast charger can get the Leaf to 80% in 26 minutes, isn't it?

        • 8 Months Ago
        Golf cart: limited range, limited performance, cannot venture far from a charging station. Users must allow for frequent multi-hour stops to recharge.

        1902 Wood's Phaeton: limited range, limited performance, cannot venture far from a charging station. Users must allow for frequent multi-hour stops to recharge.

        2010 Nissan Leaf: limited range, limited performance, cannot venture far from a charging station. Users must allow for frequent multi-hour stops to recharge.
        • 8 Months Ago
        If a 5 times improvement in range, and a 6 times speed increase constitute a 'slight improvement' in your book you have left the realms of rational discussion far behind.

        If most of your journeys are less than 100 miles then you can consider the far more spacious Leaf rather than the Volt.

        Evidently if you need more range than 100 miles on a regular basis then you might have to go for the limited availability and high price of the Volt, if you insist on a plug-in hybrid right now.
        However, at the price and considering the range restrictions to lease the Volt, you could just buy a car which on long journeys has genuine power at relatively high speed, and still save money on the Volt even including the petrol.

        So you want to buy a car which has not got a very long electric range or the simplicity that means, and one which is not very good at regular really long distance travel either.
        If you do that much driving 24 hours a day 7 days a week buy the Sonata hybrid, which is really designed for it, and will be a lot cheaper.
        • 8 Months Ago
        A Wood's Phaeton? Are you frigging kidding me???

        In the words of Bagger Vance: " That's the dumbest thing I heard...any fool say. Ever. "

        I'm not going to waste the digital trees it would take to debate a statement that stupid.

        Buy you a Volt and enjoy it...nobody is trying to stop you.
        • 8 Months Ago
        @Jim Howard, Your prognostication pertaining to the Volt would be true except for 1973. In 1973 they would only let you get 5 gallons of gas. In 73 I would have been able to go further than you in my EV than you in a Volt. ICE is 20% efficient, use it to heat the water for cleaning carpets, for driving it is not so good. You are a product of your environment, the oil corps and auto corps have not waisted all those fancy commercials on you. You are suppose to watch the program not the commercials. My Fox news friend, the Volt is perfect for you, don't wet you panties when you get close to a 8th of a tank of gas, I would truly hate for you to have to think where you are going to fill up and what would be the best route to get there. Remember, range anxiety is for wimps, that or people that refuse to use their brains but that is what your brains are for.

        Can you belive I have actually had people ask me. What happens when your battery runs low? It takes 3.5 hours to run my pack down in town. It takes two hours at 55 mph. I think if you had two hours to figure out where to refuel, well, I think you could do it. Maybe it's best you send your money out of the country, our troops have got nothing else to do but to keep you in oil. When arguing with a fool you can never win. Which one of us is the fool? Only time will tell. Volt is GM's answer to the typical American, GM does not address conscientious Americans. They tried that once, it ended badly and GM is hoping it will end badly for Nissan. By the way did you hear some terrorist attacked a tanker in The Straight of Hormuze yesterday. Why the terrorist want to attack oil is beyond me, it is where all their funding comes from.
        • 8 Months Ago
        David Martin,

        The discussion subject is 'why is the Leaf selling under MSRP?"

        The relevant answer is that its not a car, its a slightly improved Wood's Phaeton.

        Coming out at the same time as the far superior Volt pretty much relegates the Leaf to missions that require a golf cart with air conditioning.

        The Leaf isn't a lemon, but demand for it is going to be very low due to the superior alternative from GM.
        • 8 Months Ago
        What has the Volt got to do with the discussion?
        We were talking about the Leaf, and your ludicrously inaccurate characterisations of it.
        It happens I like hybrids, and certainly for some purposes they are more suitable, but that does not mean that pure electric vehicles with their inherent simplicity are not a good solution for others.
        • 8 Months Ago
        David M, do you understand about the range extender motor in the Volt?

        Where are you going to find that handy Leaf charger?

        And even if you found one, try this experiement. The next time you need a fill up in your present car, wait at the gas station for 26 minutes. Report back on how much fun you had.

        The Volt could drive 24 hours a day, seven days a week, stopping every 300 miles or so to refill the 9 gallon tank.

        Try that in you golf cart, Phaeton, or Leaf.

        The Volt costs more because it is a >car
      • 5 Years Ago
      This is what I was saying that GM should have been doing with the Volt. They are whining "we can't control the dealers because they are independent". Bull $hit! There are ways to handle the allocations and incent the dealers to do the right thing and bring customers and loyalty back to GM. THAT is worth more than a few million dollars worth of price gouging today.

      This is about market share and mind share early on as we move to EVs and PHEVs. GM is really hurting themselves with their approach and they will turn off many customers who will continue to see them as the old GM and they are proving to be just that.

      It will be really interesting to see who is the leader in this sector in 3-5 years. I'm betting Nissan will have the same lead here that Toyota enjoys in traditional hybrids today.

        • 8 Months Ago

        Ofcourse, people trying hard to earn a living wage are the mafia. Not the people in wall st who get million dollar bonuses using bailout (or credit with zero interest) money.

        No wonder this country's engineering & manufacturing base is screwed up.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Trying hard to earn a living... So UAW employees are working harder than Nissan's employees? the UAW makes trying hard to keep your job optional. High school dropouts making 30+ and hour, you have got to be kidding me... I say pay them the same bloated wage minus the UAW overhead. The UAW has been long outmoded. Wallstreet is a different problem...
        • 8 Months Ago
        GM, has two crutches that need to be dealt with, the UAW and these stealership scumbags. Its actually amazing they can sell it for 41k when the UAW mafia has their hands in the deal.
      • 8 Months Ago
      I'll stick with my Nissan Altima....it's green....it uses re-cycled dinosaurs.
        • 8 Months Ago
        You are actually driving on single cell ameba's and algae. Many millions of years of layers of plankton and seaweed from when the oceans covered the earth. These creatures died due to global worming and made oil. LOL
      • 8 Months Ago
      @Jim Howard

      Looks like you either bought into the FUD of terrorist supporters (aka fossil fuel supporters) - or you are one of them.

      What is more important - driving off to Los Vegas on a whim even if it means contributing to middle east royal families who redirect a part of that money to terrorists - or buying a car that will satisfy the daily needs of 60 Million American families ?
      • 8 Months Ago
      Methinks I'm gonna purchase a Leaf after all. Take that ye dastardly Chevy dealers!
      • 5 Years Ago
      If you add the $5000 CA rebate that the Volt doesn't qualify for on to the $7500 federal credit and $1000 dealer incentive, then the LEAF at one California dealer ends up being ~$19k base, $20k typical trim level.

      The Volt, at a different California dealer, ends up being (after tax incentives with $20k markup) $53,500 base, ~$59k typical trim level.... Dealer markup is more than the the price of the LEAF after incentives.

      So, for around the same amount of money in California, you could buy 2 LEAFs and a Cube (or a LEAF and a 370Z) at a Nissan dealer or 1 Volt at a Chevy dealer.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Give me a break. There is no evidence anyone paid the $20K markup on the Volt.

        And you can't get the $7500 or $5000 back on two Leafs, only one.
      • 8 Months Ago
      To Put this in perspective,

      For someone in SoCal, Leaf could be : 32,780 – 7,500 -5,000 -1,000 = 19,280.

      Volt = 33,500

      Volt – Leaf = 14,220 = Used Prius (plus 4kwh Enginer kit ?)

      So, for the price of a Volt you could get a Leaf + a used prius, with an Enginer kit for short distance EV driving.
        • 8 Months Ago
        To put this in further perspective. Buy the Leaf, and then buy another car to supplement the Leaf. Pay 2 insurance premiums, save the earth. Simple. Thats a lot of batteries going to the landfill though.

        It sucks that people will pay that much of a premium for the Volt, and it really sucks that GM isnt going to do anything about it.
        • 8 Months Ago
        I stand corrected. Go Nissan! Hopefully GM has a similar plan in place.
        • 8 Months Ago
        You are forgetting about the up to $20k that GM dealers are marking up the Volt.
        • 8 Months Ago

        We are about to see what premium range anxiety commands. Your calcs don't include what value the Volt's range extender brings.

        Do the math all you want, but for those people who foresee needing more range than the LEAF offers, the Volt is their only option under $50K.
        • 8 Months Ago
        What about NoCal?
        What incentives are you referring to?

        I actually did plop a deposit into the Leaf order queue (not committed to buying) ... I just hope their car process is better than the website (I almost gave up it was so broken).

        • 8 Months Ago

        "a lot of batteries going to the landfill "

        Luckily Nissan already has partnerships set up to reuse the batteries after they have lost enough battery capacity to be unuseable for automobiles but still contain enough energy for industrial applications. Once they are used up there, Nissan has further plans to recycle the batteries into new batteries (which Nissan produces in-house)- they are designed to be 100% recycleable. And since they retain substantial raw material value, the only people who would put them in landfills are people who like throwing away money.

        GM has made the decision to put the power in the hands of the dealers, we can only speculate as to why. As the Volt will have limited production and loses money for GM, perhaps the "you must order through your dealer" strategy was designed to bring more people into the dealerships to try to sell other gasoline vehicles.
        • 8 Months Ago
        "... Nissan is playing off the news ..."

        That Nissan quote is from two months ago- before GM anounced the price of the Volt, much less "playing off" of this weeks news:


        That quote was to show the Nissan ordering process would not lead to dealer markups- before GM announced their ordering process (GM could have copied Nissan, but chose not to). Show me one Nissan official trying to "play off" the news. Negative marketing is GM's tactic.

        Unfortunately Edmunds didn't name the specific dealer... I wish they would so people can hold the dealer accountable.
        • 8 Months Ago
        evnow, so we can throw used vehicles into the equation? We paid $1000 for our SUV. So for the price of a Leaf, you could buy twenty SUVs. Maybe one SUV and a boatload of gas.

        lne937s: "You are forgetting about the up to $20k that GM dealers are marking up the Volt."

        Dealers? Plural? Of the thousands of GM dealers, name TWO that are adding a $20K markup.

        You're smart enough to realize tat Nissan is playing off the news of the ONE GM dealer that made the automotive press.
      • 8 Months Ago
      Californians buying a qualified electric vehicle get a $5000 rebate, while funds last.


      As for dealer incentives in your area to get you to pick them for delivery, you'll have to look around- I would start here:

      Some dealers are also offering to ship beyond 100 mi for free.

      • 5 Years Ago
      The launch of the Leaf is proving to be a professional and slick operation, in contrast to the dog's breakfast of the launch of the Volt, full of insecure knocking of the opposition and taking their eye off of the objective, customer satisfaction.
      • 8 Months Ago
      evnow, yapping about "living wages" is the same as waving a huge flag that says "I understand absolutely nothing about economics!" It also helps others to totally ignore any future comments of yours as irrelevant.
      • 5 Years Ago
      This is what GM needs to do to stops that typical low type of GM Chevy dealer that will put their greed ahead of every thing else !

      Though I guess the more I think about it the more I am still willing to bet there will be a greedy GM Chevy dealer and Nissan dealer that will try their hardest to rip off a consumer ..GM you better wake up and stop those dealers like that one low scum of a dealer tryin to charge a extra 20,000 for the chevy Volt car...

      Of cause anther point of thought is unless the buyer has cash, Is there any way a bank would approve a loan for any car 20,000 over the cars value , I wonder?
        • 8 Months Ago

        a lot more than one chevy dealer is selling for over MSRP- 60% in the poll are at GM volt


        the $20,000 over number is from a dealer quote given to Edmunds:

        GM is allocating a limited number of cars to individual dealers and is forbidding them from selling cars across state lines. In potential high-demand areas like California, that works against the consumer.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Ah, I am not sure but I think they bailed out General Motors Credit Corporation. They will finance the Volt for 20k mark up.
        • 8 Months Ago
        ONE Chevy dealer said it would sell the Volt for well over MSRP.

        TWO Nissan dealers said they would sell the Leaf for slightly under MSRP.

        How in the world do you take that data and call it "typical"?

        Good point about the loan though.
        • 8 Months Ago
        That's a damn good question farmer...what bank will sign off on a
        loan that puts everyone upside down $20K BEFORE they even
        drive off the lot???
      • 8 Months Ago
      There is nothing stopping Volt buyers from shopping around as well. They can order their Volt from a more distant dealership, then get service from their local one.

      I believe this is more an indication that Nissan is having difficulty selling all 25,000 of their production run of LEAF BEV's, whereas the Chevy Volt EREV has nearly 75,000 interested buyers on the chevyvoltage website.
        • 8 Months Ago
        I understand how Nissan wants to spin this, and I also understand Nissan's ordering system is more fluid than GM's, but the fact remains that Nissan is having to drop their price to increase sales, while Chevrolet dealers are commanding up to $20K in dealer markups. Simple supply-demand price curves - high demand + short supply = higher prices, low demand + over supply = low prices.

        I have no beef with the LEAF. I am just as happy seeing them sell as I am Volts. I just take issue with people trying to spin fallling LEAF values as anything good.
        • 8 Months Ago
        @Jason "Chevy Volt EREV has nearly 75,000 interested buyers on the chevyvoltage website."

        LOL. That is just dudes with email addresses. Nissan has over 125K of such "hand raisers" - well last time they reported that number months ago.
        • 8 Months Ago
        No, Nissan is having to delay opening up sales in other countries to make sure they can fill orders they are getting in existing announced geographies.

        IMO, This is a simple matter of Nissan building relationships and positioning themselves to lead in the EV market and GM...being GM.

        • 8 Months Ago

        I don't think you grasp the differences in the process:

        Nissan allocates a vehicle to consumers, who then pick whatever dealer they want to receive the vehicle from. The consumer is in charge and the dealers compete for the consumer's business. This leads dealers to offer better deals to get the consumers to choose them for delivery. Considering that the dealer isn't having to do much work to sell the vehicle, it isn't a bad deal for the dealer either, even with the discounts.

        GM allocates vehicle to dealers, who then sell them to consumers for whatever the consumers are willing to pay. Considering that GM is making less than half as many Volts as what Nissan is delivering to the US in 2011, supply is tight. In addition, GM has forbidden dealers from sales accross state lines. This puts the dealers in charge, with consumers competing for very limited dealer allocations- leading dealers to increase prices as much as they can.
        • 8 Months Ago

        Think of it this way. Nissan has a common queue. You need to choose your dealer only when the time comes to order. So, the dealers are rying to attract customers with deals.

        Volt has hundreds of queues - one for each dealer. Once you are in a queue, if some other dealer offers a better deal, if you switch the dealer you start at the end of that dealer's queue. Also, since the allocation is by dealer, a dealer just needs to sell the cars he has been allocated. No incentive to offer deals and get more customers.

        This Fonata Nissan guy can potentially attract and get all 500 Leaf from SoCal. Even a $200 margin gives him $100K in profit.
        • 8 Months Ago
        It's hard to compare the Volt list to the Nissan list. Members of the Volt list started way back when Volt was first announced, before the Leaf was announced, and before the final price was announced. There is no way to remove yourself from the Volt list.

        The Leaf list on the other hand actually took a $99 deposit (fully refundable). This would indicate a much higher chance of actually buying the vehicle than merely adding your email address to a list. Plus the Volt list isn't even sponsored by GM.

        So please stop throwing out that 75,000 number. It's essentially usesless.
        • 8 Months Ago

        you still don't understand the difference. To put it in supply and demand terms:

        Nissan allocates supply to consumers. Dealers demand for the business (and margins built in to the vehicle price) makes them compete with other dealers to be the point of purchase for that supply. Dealer demand to be the point of purchase outweighs consumer supply, so consumer comes out ahead.

        GM allocates supply to dealers. Consumers compete with other consumers for the limited dealer supply. Consumer demand outweighs dealer supply, so the dealer comes out ahead.

        Nissan is not discounting- dealers are to get the business. Consumer demand will easily strip out supply.
        • 8 Months Ago
        Jason...I had to laugh when you said Nissan will have trouble selling 25,000 LEAFS...LOLOL...they will outsell the Volt, i guarantee it! Nissan has well OVER 100,000 people interested now and you say only 75,000 for the Volt? LOL Nissan will easily sell over a million LEAFS in just a couple years. Their production capacity RIGHT now is 50, 000 or more a quarter. Soon, they will be made in TN. Eat your heart out! :)
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