• 104
2010 Plug-in Prius Prototypes – Click above to watch video after the jump

Toyota graciously allowed us to take the plug-in Prius for a quick spin a while back and we walked away somewhat impressed, noting that it offers the same joys of a traditional Prius, but packs in a bit more of everything good. Our brief stint behind the wheel was limited, but the powers that be decided that the guys over at Inside Line would get a long-term plug-in Prius.

So far, the Inside Line team has racked up more than 500 miles in the plug-in Prius and the experience has to be considered somewhat of a let down. The team has averaged 62 miles per gallon, a good number for sure, but one that many drivers of the more conventional Prius have easily achieved on a regular basis. The Inside Line team was impressed with Toyota's overall effort on the plug-in Prius. They noted that it actually handles better than your typical Prius thanks to the added weight from the batteries, is generally a joy to drive and offers great efficiency.

Inside Line even tracked the cost for charging the Prius and came back with an average of 65 cents per fill. Now, for those wondering about the payback period on the plug-in Prius, Toyota estimates that the plug-in version would hit the streets with a base price of around $27,550, a $4,000 premium over a traditional Prius. Given the plug-in's slightly improved efficiency, one would have to drive 215,100 miles to make up for the additional cash laid out to start, but even that figure fails to factor in the cost of charging the Prius. Dependent upon the cost of electricity, a plug-in Prius will likely cost more to drive than its more traditional hybrid counterpart. The plug-in Prius might not be a wise investment, but Inside Line still adamently believes that it's one of the best hybrids available. We won't argue with that. Follow the jump to watch the plug-in Prius in action



Photos by Sebastian Blanco / Copyright ©2010 Weblogs, Inc.
[Source: Inside Line]



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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 104 Comments
      papam11
      • 4 Years Ago
      Payback at 215K miles? Then it's not worth it.
        • 1 Month Ago
        @papam11
        You confuse cost and value.
      • 4 Years Ago
      I think they assumed that nobody would ever "PLUG IT IN".....


      62 mpg is based on a single continuous drive of 500 miles. Only using 16 miles of plugin power.

      But a driver that only has an average of 25 miles per day... would get an equivalent of 134 mpg.

      Remember this article Eric Loveday???
      http://green.autoblog.com/2009/12/14/toyota-officially-launches-plug-in-prius-program-retail-sales-i/

        • 1 Month Ago
        The plug-in Prius achieves 134mpg in the JC08 cycle.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Easily attainable? How is that? It has ungodly awful pickup in EV mode and it kicks off anyway at 38mph or something, lower if you aren't on level ground.

        And then of course, A/C...
        • 1 Month Ago
        0-60 mph in 10 seconds doesn't sound impressive when comparing it to gassers.

        But I assure you, the feeling of "pickup" is measured in the 0-30 mph for EVs. 100% torque at 0 rpm.

        The Prius probably feels like a 8 second 0-60 car. And that is just fine for a passenger sedan of it's size.

        -----------------

        Trying to discredit the Prius if futile. They have already proven themselves with their sales numbers.
        • 1 Month Ago
        I don't need to read the docs, I DROVE a 2010.

        Toyota's official EV cutoff is 25mph. The higher figure you list is only for the PHEV. And it does have AWFUL pickup in EV mode. Don't try to snow me, I tried it.

        The A/C does matter, because it will turn the engine on. Like it did in my friend's last night. He turned the car on and put it in reverse and the engine came on. The engine can't even drive the car in reverse in the Prius, it's electric only! The engine came on because the A/C was draining the battery and it needed to charge it. That makes it tougher to get 48% of your time in EV only mode.
        • 1 Month Ago
        The Volt will face the same problem. Someone's going to drive it for hundreds of miles so that it's powered mostly by gasoline, and report that. It's an uphill battle against ignorance and sensationalism in the media.
        • 1 Month Ago
        "62 mpg is based on a single continuous drive of 500 miles. Only using 16 miles of plugin power. "

        Are you sure about that?.. if that is the case then this whole report is a fraud.

        What I think happened is that they drove the Prius too aggressively, the Prius could not stay in the EV mode and had a lot of engine starts.
        • 1 Month Ago
        "Easily attainable? How is that? It has ungodly awful pickup in EV mode and it kicks off anyway at 38mph or something, lower if you aren't on level ground. And then of course, A/C..."

        You need to read up on that, they changed it for the 2010 model.. EV speeds up to 62mph and better than "awful pickup" while in EV mode.. and the AC is electric so that the engine does not need to run.
        • 1 Month Ago
        The mpg calculation is meaningless if they are running it on the battery for at least part of the time. Using this logic, you could say an electric vehicle gets infinity miles per gallon.
        • 1 Month Ago
        @ Hermperez. It only gets 134mpg in the JC08 cycle. ASSUMING the EV mode usage is 48%. That means 48% of the miles driven are done with the engine off.

        Current Prius owners know that even real world driving, 48% EV mode is easily attainable.

        ---------------------

        I am just so sick and tired of journalist trying to establish a single MPG number for plugin vehicles, IT CANNOT BE DONE!

        Do not even try, as it only serve to confuse people. You HAVE TO give people 2 numbers and let them figure it out based on their typical driving day.
        • 1 Month Ago
        I don't need to read up on it, I DROVE a 2010 model.

        They raised the max, but it's still a joke, you have to baby the heck out of the car and you still won't get to 62mph. Toyota's official figure is 25mph!

        Also, I think the 62mph figure you quite is for the PHEV version only.
      • 4 Years Ago
      and of course the prius power split device has to go. it has to be a series hybrid or it will be left behind. they're even being sued for using the power split planet gear arrangement so it should be an easy choice. but they're stupid.
      eventually they'll come around. logic will force their obtuse hands.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Yes Dan, I have looked at the chat history. And I wasn't talking about the PSD, I was talking about a IMA hybrid.... which does have a torque converter for their CVT.

        notice I wrote:
        - "Automatic transmissions have planetary gears, true. But those gears cannot change while the engine power is transmitted through them."

        - " Mike Dimmick, Oops, I owe you an apology. You were right, the split power device of the Prius has "the engine crankshaft permanently connected" the and has no torque converter."

        - "I was thinking IMA type hybrid... but when I realized Mike was talking about HSD, I apologized that I misunderstood."

        Look for the first time I actually typed Prius in the thread... it occurs after I recognized that you and Mike D were talking specifically about the Prius.

        -------------------------

        But you try to pounce on my simple misunderstandings of which type (IMA or PSD) as if I am "mindless". Yes, I should have noticed more carefully that you guys had typed in the word, "Prius" several times. But I just kept think of the generic term hybrid. And IMA is the type that I am most familiar with.

        It is like pointing out someones grammar mistake because you know you have lost the argument.

        -----------------

        You still did not know that the ICE in a PSD system can run on a single optimized RPM. And you still thought the planetary gears "dragged the ICE". And you ignore your statement that, "..I don't think IMA has torque converters either.." Which was also wrong.

        Now, you are trying to backtrack as if you knew all along. And using the link that I found, as if you came up with it. You have been found out.

        You were wrong about the efficiencies of the two systems. Because you DID NOT KNOW how the PSD fully worked.

        I admitted that I didn't know "exactly" how everything moved either. But I knew that the parallel configuration is more efficient than a series hybrid in "charge sustainment mode". And from what I didn't know, I immediately retracted and apologized.

        You were wrong, everybody saw it. But your stubbornness and ego prevent you from EVER admitting fault.

        Now you are deflecting. And all you have are verbal insults. No argument left.

        • 1 Month Ago
        It is all summed up in your last comment here:
        http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/25/hybrid-sales-to-top-1-4m-capture-10-of-market-by-2015/

        - "it all works out neatly and of course I am right. I'm always right : )"

        You truly believe you are "always right". The smiley face is a poor attempt to hide you arrogance!
        • 1 Month Ago
        Dan,

        Take another look at http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

        Set the MG2 to a speed below 40 mph, and set the ICE to off (all the way down).

        The system automatically sets the MG1 to a speed that ensures 0 torque on the "planet carrier" which means nothing is "dragging the ICE".

        ***In the gen2 and gen3 Prius, the top speed is set to 62 mph because of faster motors.

        So that invalidates that theory of additional loss through "ICE dragging" during EV Mode.

        ------------------------------------

        - "even in ICE mode the prius still needs one motor to generate power for the other to spin to keep the gear ratio for the ICE."

        True, but do not confuse speed (RPM) with Power (KW). Just because it is spinning at 10,000 RPM, does NOT mean that the electric motor is using a lot of power. When the ICE is on, and running at it's optimum speed, it is producing most of the torque needed for the wheels.

        The fast spinning electric motor provides a bit of additional torque, but very little compared to a series drivetrain that is getting 100% of the power through the motor.

        A series hybrid's traction motor transfers ALL of the power to the wheels so it will incur the full 5% of the loss.

        ---------------------

        For example, in a series hybrid, if 20KW are needed at the wheels to travel at 50 mph. And the traction motor has a loss of 5%, then ~1 KW is lost through the motor... in any mode.

        In a PSD, if the ICE is sending 15 KW directly to the wheels and the traction motor needs to spin faster to provide the additional 5 KW of power to the wheels...
        Only 0.27 KW are lost through the motor.

        --------

        It may be simpler for the engineering layman to understand the series hybrid. Much more so than the power split device... but I assure you, higher efficiency is achieved when power transmission is more DIRECT... from source to wheels.

        • 1 Month Ago
        @Dan:

        "and grinding that planet gear at that speed."

        Helical gears (the type used in the PSD) are well over 90% efficient, so they're not "grinding" as you say. Spur gears are even more efficient, but are louder, so are only used in racing applications. Average losses for a typical planetary gear stage are around 3%.

        I won't even go into your comment about adding a clutch...the whole design of the PSD revolves around not needing one.
        • 1 Month Ago
        ^^ What Joe said.

        It's like trying to explain to a 5 year old that Santa isn't real, but they just refuse to believe it.

        I would have contributed twice as much to every comment thread you've ever started if I didn't feel it would fall on deaf ears. Even when you're faced with concrete facts and calculations, you still feel like whatever is in your little head reigns supreme.

        Get over yourself and start living in the real world, fantasy man. We're sick of hearing your crap.
        • 1 Month Ago
        - "Even when you're faced with concrete facts and calculations, you [Dan] still feel like whatever is in your little head reigns supreme." -Jason

        That is the very core of the point. Looking at all of the comments... Dan and I are both quite wordy. But it seems that, with everything said...

        Dan is the only one that is NOT using any math, linking any sources, or providing any detailed analysis of his claims. His only validation is inside his mind. In the world of fact, evidence must be validated externally. The peer review process is a good example. But he has no validation because everything he knows to be true exists only in his head.

        Yet he still claims that he has the intellectual (and moral) high ground.

        • 1 Month Ago
        In the long term I agree. In the short term I think there is still plenty of room in the market for a plug in vehicle with a smaller cheaper battery pack and good fuel efficiency for less than the volt or the leaf.

        But toyota could always strip out the engine, add a few more batteries and make it a full bev.
        • 1 Month Ago
        series hybrid doesn't require a large battery pack though. that's one of its many advantages, it lends itself to plugin operation and smooth transition for ever larger battery packs. I'm not talking long term, I'm talking what should have been done 10 years ago
        • 1 Month Ago
        You have 5 people here who seem to think you DON'T know how the Prius works.

        Your talk of clutches and "dragging the ICE"
        Your talk of "the Pruis' ICE doesn't operate at optimum speed"
        etc..

        You have proven you know much less than you claim.

        Your ego has swollen again, and it is preventing you from learning.
        • 1 Month Ago
        chris, no I don't think I am. even in ICE mode the prius still needs one motor to generate power for the other to spin to keep the gear ratio for the ICE.
        and in BEV mode it has to spin the MG1 at 10000rpm just to keep the ICE out of the picture at 62mph. always. and grinding that planet gear at that speed.
        and it's a complicated device to make. and it means ICE and e-motors have to be at the same place.
        it's a clever device I'm just not sure it has any advantages at all over series hybrid and certainly not in the BEV mode which is where they will be driving most of the time.
        they could add a clutch so the drive motor can run free of the rest but why patch a messy system when the clean solution is easier and as good.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Jason, I know how it works. it was just a wording. and by grinding I meant waste of energy. if you don't stop the stupid train I'll stop answering you
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joe, I would never blame you for an honest mistake. that doesn't make you mindless. indulging your beastly hatred for me does make you mindless though.
        think about what you do.
        I have solid combination of knowledge and intelligence and you have no reason whatsoever for attacking me. I have been right all along and you have been under influence of forces you have no understanding of. But if you think about what you do you can stop being a slave to those influences.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Jason, I just meant that in BEV operation it has to spend energy spinning MG1 to keep the ICE out of the equation because those 3 parts are hard coupled in the prius powersplit device. I could have worded it more clearly, perhaps too virtuous use of the language.

        I trust you understand that MG2 which is attached to the wheels in fixed gearing, cannot drive the car without MG1 spinning fast to keep the ICE out of the picture. I really shouldn't have to explain it any further
        • 1 Month Ago
        I still don't understand how you think it's "dragging" the ICE in EV mode.

        By "dragging" do you mean "carrying around without providing benefit" or are you implying that the ICE is somehow applying resistance to MG2, decreasing it's power output to the wheels?

        The only drag that is created by spinning MG1 in EV mode is the frictional loss in the bearings, which is minuscule. The only negative effect it can have on performance is reducing acceleration slightly because of the added rotational inertia.

        And as far as "grinding" goes, I've already stated that the losses created by spinning the planetary gearset are ~3% of the total power output. So while it is a loss, it is fairly insignificant. And again, they could easily switch to spur gears and get the losses down to the 1% realm, but the noise penalty would be too severe to justify the gains.

        And if I were being childish in my responses, then that would warrant you threatening not to respond to me, but I have done nothing but bring valid points and useful information to the discussion.
        • 1 Month Ago
        There is a reason why the consensus is against you. And it has nothing to do with me insulting you. You are just wrong very often. There are somethings people do agree with on, but the majority seems to be opposition. It is not just me. Take a look at the amount of resistance your comments foster. And even the comments that don't get too much criticism are because everyone is tired of arguing with you. For instance, every time you mention fiber.

        You may think you have, "a solid combination of knowledge and intelligence ". But it doesn't show very well beyond your arrogance.

        -----------------------

        - "you are extremely arrogant yourself with the critical difference that you are mostly wrong."

        Yet the consensus tends to agree with the points I make.
        I don't believe I am "right all the time". But you do... and have been quoted saying such. THAT is the nature of arrogance.

        When I am wrong, I admit it. But you NEVER admit error! THAT is the nature of arrogance.

        ------------------

        - "I have been right all along and you have been under influence of forces you have no understanding of."

        First part of that sentence is obviously just more arrogant puffery. But the last part... are you saying I am being influenced by Satan?

        I was wondering when the religious self-righteousness would surface again.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Series hybrid will need bigger battery that can take more abuse because it has to buffer the more powerful electric motor and regen braking. You end up with the electric propulsion as costly as an EV but runs on gasoline and get about 40 MPG. FAIL!

        Series-Parallel split hybrids are the only proven mass produced architecture that makes sense for both manufacturers and buyers.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joe, yesterday you thought the prius had a torque converter, didn't you?
        yesterday I also knew how the prius psd works.
        you can go back in history in the comments here on ABG where i have talked about it several times. but you don't want to do that because then you would have to admit being wrong. again.
        I just meant that for MG2 to drive the car MG1 has to spin to keep the ICE out of the picture because they are hard connected. Dragging the ICE. I could have worded it differently but there was never any confusion about how it works.
        you are just mindlessly motivated by desperate desire to defeat me and in your mindless haste you bite on to things you shouldn't have. I suggest a different attitude
        • 1 Month Ago
        "and the clutch would be to let the electric motor drive the car without having to drag the ICE"

        The engine itself creates no drag on the output shaft when the vehicle is running in EV mode. The planetary carrier remains stationary while the planetary gears rotate about their respective shafts. The only losses in the planetary carrier are the ~1% that are created by the meshing of the helical gears.

        You might be confusing the PSD with Honda's IMA system...in which the engine can never be decoupled from the wheels.

        What were you implying when using the word "grinding"? Excessive wear?
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joe, I know how it works. you didn't. and I still know how it works. think
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joe, I'm not trying to hide my confidence. indeed I'm experimenting with pronouncing it as a means to communicate key truthes more effectively. Always being careful to make sure to match the confidence with accuracy. If you weren't in such a hurry to make mistakes you might notice that you are extremely arrogant yourself with the critical difference that you are mostly wrong.
        You labor under the false assumption that if you just attack me enough then some concensus of my error will form and you'll be right, never stopping to consider if you actually are right.
        I forgive you for you know not what you do. I would suggest however that you start thinking about what you do.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Dan, you're conveniently overlooking the advantages of the split path architecture. It can work well with less powerful motor/generators and a smaller battery pack than is possible with series hybrid, leading to much lower costs - 27K vs 40K, even after tax rebates the price advantage remains. Also, since the split path design has less energy conversion losses, it is more fuel efficient in "range extender" mode.

        I see advantages to both series and split path "plug-ins", and both will do well in the market - until cost effective "600 mile range" batteries hit the market.
        • 1 Month Ago
        @ paul "...for less than the volt or the leaf"

        Well, that car isn't the Prius in terms of a comparablly equipted car to a LEAF. A Prius with alloys, LED headlights, Navigation, etc. to match the LEAF as closely as possible is over $30k. After federal tax incentives, the LEAF comes in significantly below a comparably equipted Prius. After some state incentives, the LEAF comes in below the base Prius. In terms of total cost of ownership over 5 years, the LEAF wins hands down. If you need to go more than 100 miles per charge- that is your justifiation for the Prius, but it doesn't save you money.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Jason, I said grinding, you stipulated energy loss, hardly a contradiction of what I said..
        and the clutch would be to let the electric motor drive the car without having to drag the ICE. you may idiotically claim it doesn't need it but it is nonetheless its weakness in EV mode
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joe, you're just a loud mouth energized by someone as ignorant as yourself. Weakminded pack mentality. There is not a majority of agreement with you. They are just humble or cowardly content letting me fight alone. And even if I was all alone and every sheep on this planet were just like you I would still be right and you would still be wrong.
        Truth is not a democracy and I've dealth with many like you. Many here and many elsewhere.
        You bark like rabid dogs and then you fade away. you may come to accept the truth of what I say but I have yet to see someone realize all the wrong they did and really learn from it and become a mindful soul. They tell themselves I changed, not them. So they don't have to face what they did. Or that I was a jerk for pointing out their error they so loudly barked at me. Anything to blame anyone but the guilty party. Mindless sin of pride.

        The prius power split device will go. Toyota being obtuse might try to hold on to it, maybe add a clutch to let the drive motor run the car free of the rest. But eventually all cars will be EVs with generators or fast charge pure BEVs.
      • 4 Years Ago
      The cost of charging the battery is pennies on the dollar compared to the gasoline. A 5kWh pack will cost you an average of ~40 cents to charge. EV's are far more economical to run.

      Sincerely, Neil
        • 1 Month Ago
        Depends on where you live of course.

        11.46 cents per kwh is U.S. average for retail price residential.
        http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_3.html

        It winds up being 12 cents after extras. 5 kwh would cost 60 cents to fill.

        The usable pack might only be 4.5 kwh or so... but the charging losses mean you wind up paying for 5 kwh anyway.

        So, 60 cents. Which is the equivalent of 70 mpg when gasoline is $3/gal
        ... about 4.3 cents per mile

      • 4 Years Ago
      I watched the video. A big selling point of this new Prius is... You don't have to spend all that time and labor plugging it in. That is so sweet, when is my cell phone going to be this way because I am damn tired of plugging it in. I have had it, I am going back to a land line.
        • 1 Month Ago
        The extra bulk of the induction coils that need to sit very low under the car.
        The extra cost of the chargers.
        And less than 70% efficiency during charging.

        Makes the whole thing VERY expensive. Laziness has a price point.
        • 1 Month Ago
        "The extra bulk of the induction coils that need to sit very low under the car. The extra cost of the chargers. And less than 70% efficiency during charging."

        That has changed, now you can have separations of meters, and kilowatts power transfers at 95% efficiency, there are several companies trying to market the tech...google mit wireless power transfer.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Joei, keep googling, you gave up too soon.
        • 1 Month Ago
        I assume EVsuperhero is being sarcastic.

        I plug in my cell phone every night without even thinking about it. I expect charging an EV will be equally routine, and as this video shows, equally quick and effortless:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQkGw-U9-ps
        • 1 Month Ago
        "A physics research group, led by Prof. Marin Soljačić, at MIT, wirelessly power a 60W light bulb with 40% efficiency at a 2 metres (6.6 ft) distance using two 60 cm-diameter coils"

        60 Watts !!!!

        And 40% efficiency.

        The efficiency gets worse the farther away. And gets worse the higher the power.

        ----------------

        I stick by 70% efficiency when using 3 Kw at 1 foot distance. That is reasonable. But still not achieved yet.

        The induction paddles used for the EV-1 was about 86% efficient. But the distance was only in millimeters.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

        "The Magne Charge system employed high-frequency induction to deliver high power at an efficiency of 86% (6.6kW power delivery from a 7.68kW power draw)."
        "Hughes Electronics developed the Magne Charge interface for General Motors. The General Motors EV1 electric car was charged by inserting an inductive charging paddle into a receptacle on the vehicle. General Motors and Toyota agreed on this interface and it was also used in the Chevrolet S-10 EV and Toyota RAV4 EV vehicles."

        ---------------------------

        And if you are talking about the efficiency of a rectenna microwave beam.... then you are only looking at the 95% efficiency of the rectenna only. And are ignoring the losses from the microwave emitter. After all the conversions and power electronics, you would be lucky to get 70% overall efficiency.

        There is a reason they are considering that primarily for space applications.
        • 1 Month Ago
        You need a wireless power transfer.. that way you never have to plug it in.. pretty handy for an EV parked on the street also.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Yes Evan here is proof that the people at the pump are realy taking much more time to deal with fueling their vehicles. This is the guy with the Minni E who sometimes posts here.

        "I have about 32,000 miles on my car in three
        weeks less than a year so I’m going to end
        up with right around 33,000 miles on the car
        this year. If I had driven my Toyota Tacoma
        truck all year instead of the MINI, I would
        have to had to stop for gasoline exactly 100
        times as I can get 325 to 340 miles per tank.
        Doing simple math I have spent a cumulative
        2 hours and 26 minutes plugging and
        unplugging my car this year. If I was driving
        my Toyota, I would have spent over 11 and
        a half hours sitting at a gas station waiting
        for the tank to fill.
        So I ask: Who’s really wasting their time?"
        • 1 Month Ago
        @ hermperez

        link please. cause those numbers seem unrealistic... in this universe anyway.
      • 4 Years Ago
      Pointless.
        • 1 Month Ago
        ^ Wow, some serious spam happening.
      • 4 Years Ago
      From Edmunds:

      "But here's the biggest difference with the 2010 Toyota Prius PHV. The first 14 miles (we actually averaged 13 miles) of any full-charge trip consumes essentially no gasoline, as the engine fires up only to power subsidiary systems and the electric motor takes over propulsion duty."

      Do your own math.
        • 1 Month Ago
        "Payback on even a regular Prius has always been a problem.. its always cheaper to keep driving your 2 year old Corolla.. and it will be more than an issue with a plug-in."

        It's not all about payback. People buy sportcars without any expectation of "payback" - they buy them for their speed, or for their image. Likewise, many people bought Priuses for the image and for the environment.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Good point.. if your commute is less than 13 miles and you are a motivated driver then your mileage will be much much higher. Its not infinity because the Prius always uses some gas running diagnostics and warming up to reduce emissions.

        Payback on even a regular Prius has always been a problem.. its always cheaper to keep driving your 2 year old Corolla.. and it will be more than an issue with a plug-in.

        Essentially what Toyota has done is take a regular 2010 Prius and added the OPTION to get some EV range.. I believe the 2010 comes ready from the factory for it, thus Toyota has been planning this for a while now. Perhaps they will even offer different battery size options.

        Its possible Toyota may have to increase the size of the main motor once again, Americans have a heavy lead foot and have trouble staying in the EV mode, apparently. The Prius is still an engine centric hybrid, starting to move in the direction of a battery centric hybrid.. it still is a brilliant and desirable car.
      rcyrilj
      • 4 Years Ago
      All of the plug-in vehicle calculations assume that the government will continue to allow electricity used for transportation battery charging to be tax free -- not going to happen. As vehicles become more fuel efficient the government (state and federal) will be looking for ways to maintain highway trust funds and that means taxes.

      Next -- you have to add in the carrying costs (interest) for the more expensive car. Net result is that none of the of hybrid or electric vehicles currently available are as cost effective as they first appear. This does not mean that we should not pursue alternative transpiration technologies -- it just means that the cost assumptions need to be made more realistic.
      • 4 Years Ago
      Going from 10mpg to 20mpg will save you tons of money.........but going from 50 to 62mpg won't save you much.

      They should just stop making the hybrid and sell only the plug-in...economies of scale anyone?
        • 1 Month Ago
        Yes, I would like my 05 Siverado 4dr 4wh pu to get a hybrid system where it gets 15 miles on electricity, I would also like it to plug in.
        • 1 Month Ago
        "They should just stop making the hybrid and sell only the plug-in...economies of scale anyone?"

        It seems to me that Toyota is thinking of offering this plug-in pack as an extra cost option.. but factory installed and all the cells in the same housing. They probably want to see how the LEAF and Volt do in the market.. its a low risk strategy for them.
      • 4 Years Ago
      Dan for the love of the God you profess to believe in, SHUT THE FUCK UP! It's the Christian thing to do!
        • 1 Month Ago
        Please reply to his comment string... so he is more likely to read it.

        He needs to be told by as many people as possible... maybe it will sink in. Kinda like an intervention.
        • 1 Month Ago
        Quit hating on Dan F! He is influenced by forces of which he knows not. I think Satin is getting a bum rap, everyone blames everything on him... Or her? Sorry I don't want to be a male chauvinist.

        Must be nice to always assign blame. "The devil made me do it"

        Don't blame senators for being corrupt, it is the devil. Don't blame GM for lack of fore site, devil once again. Oil and coal and people who consume the poisonous energy, yes you guessed it, devils fault.
      • 4 Years Ago
      I think I found the problem:


      14 EV miles per full charge @ 65 cents = 4.6 cents per mile

      53 miles per gallon @ $3/gal = 5.7 cents per mile

      @ 50% EV utilization that is 5.1 cents per mile average.

      5.1 cents x 12,000 miles per year = $612 per year.

      -------------

      A 3rd Gen Prius is 50 mpg. So that is 6 cents per mile
      = $720 per year

      $108 per year in savings... $3,000 premium (he said 3 or 4 thousand) = 28 years to payback. Or 330,000 miles

      --------------

      HOWEVER!

      The amount of $7,500 is only awarded to EVs with 15.9 kwh or more of battery. The amount is reduced $417 for EACH kwh below.

      "Plug-in electric drive vehicles with batteries of at least 4 kWh qualify for a $2,500 credit. An additional $417 is provided for each additional kWh, up to $7,500 for vehicles up to 10,000 lbs. Vehicles up to 14,000 lbs qualify for a $10,000 credit."
      http://www.electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/11032/pid/11032

      --------------

      So...

      $3,000 minus $2,917 = $83
      $3,500 minus $2,917 = $583
      $4,000 minus $2,917 = $1,083

      ($83 / $108) x 12 = 9 months payback
      ($1,083 / $108) = 5 Years payback
      ($583 / $108) = 10 Years payback

      So it REALLY depends on the exact premium amount.
      And also, the price of gasoline.
      And also, the number of miles driven each year.

      And also, how often the driver charges up.
      • 4 Years Ago
      Toyota is spending a million dollars a day for your safety, according to their commercials.

      My car has a 35 kwh pack. Since it only uses 28 kwh of the total pack and can go 133 miles it gets 4.75 miles per kwh. This is equivalent to 160 miles per gallon, sorry for lying to you all about this as I use to say 120 mpg but no, it is 160 mpg, I did not know it until now, so sorry once again for misleading you all!

      The hybrids realy suck down the gas! http://www.evalbum.com/1892

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