Perpetual Power? NASA creates submersible that can run nearly forever

May 3rd 2010 at 8:03AM
26

Well, it's not exactly perpetual motion or energy, but it's getting closer than most such attempts. Plus, instead of being backed by some sort of random crackpot scientist, this particular project has the backing of NASA and the U.S. Navy. So, what is it? (Take a deep breath.) The Sounding Oceanographic Lagrangrian Observer Thermal Recharging (SOLO-TREC) autonomous underwater vehicle. Says Jack Jones, a JPL principal engineer and SOLO-TREC co-principal investigator:

People have long dreamed of a machine that produces more energy than it consumes and runs indefinitely... While not a true perpetual motion machine, since we actually consume some environmental energy, the prototype system demonstrated by JPL and its partners can continuously monitor the ocean without a limit on its lifetime imposed by energy supply.

So, how does it work? Again, we'll allow the certified geniuses at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory to explain:

SOLO-TREC draws upon the ocean's thermal energy as it alternately encounters warm surface water and colder conditions at depth. Key to its operation are the carefully selected waxy substances known as phase-change materials that are contained in 10 external tubes, which house enough material to allow net power generation. As the float surfaces and encounters warm temperatures, the material melts and expands; when it dives and enters cooler waters, the material solidifies and contracts. The expansion of the wax pressurizes oil stored inside the float. This oil periodically drives a hydraulic motor that generates electricity and recharges the vehicle's batteries. Energy from the rechargeable batteries powers the float's hydraulic system, which changes the float's volume (and hence buoyancy), allowing it to move vertically.

Got it? And the best part of all is that it actually works. So far, SOLO-TREC has completed 300 dives, each of which produced about 1.7 watt-hours, or 6,100 joules, of energy – enough to power the vehicle's science instruments, GPS receiver, communications device and buoyancy-control pump.

[Source: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory via Engadget]

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26 Comments

Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
Something is screwed up on the comments.

My above comment starting with "And, it won't replace..." was meant to be in the earlier thread as a reply to Joe.

The next comment down, starting with "You work for JPL?!?" was meant to be a reply to Nozferat.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
Hey I know these guys! They are one building over from me!

I keep telling people that here at JPL we're working on some really cutting edge stuff for H2, battery cell stuff, etc....but some idiots on these forums have no clue.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
Somewhere years ago I read where an engineer who lived in a cold climate had built a toy go-cart powered by a similar expansion-contraction method, except that he got his temperature gradient by leaving it out overnight in freezing temperatures. It didn't travel far, but was apparently a quick ride.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
And, it won't replace all the existing structure, as I said. We just wouldn't need more power plants, and if the theoretical numbers and projections are anywhere close to reality, then we would actually be able to start shutting down some of the worst of the existing plants (coal).
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
And they can't even invent a cellphone battery that runs for more than 10 hours.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
Did anybody else get that it sounds like a lava lamp? atleast the waxy melting part? It sounds interesting to say the least, but what is its main objective?
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  What it does is measure temperature and water composition over the course of the depths it travels. It has "wings" that help guide it, where the constant cycle of diving and returning to the surface moves water over the wings, providing directional motion rather than just bobbing up and down. They have various powered versions that are already deployed around the world, but this will be great - not needing a battery at all.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  I agree, it sounds like a lava lamp, except instead of having a light bulb to supply heat energy, the wax is melted by the heat of warm surface water.
  
  Not a perpetual-motion machine, because external heat energy is what drives the system.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
very clever!
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  Interesting indeed.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
You work for JPL?!? Just great, that's all we need: arrogant pricks from the very source of alternative technology. It's a tough-enough sell to the general public, politicians, etc., but if you're shitty with us, who actually know something about these technologies and actually care, I don't want to know how you relate to the general public. I certainly hope they keep you far, far away back in your lab where you belong.

On the positive side, keep those inventions coming!
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  Actually, I have many times...well before you showed up on these forums in the discussions I was involved in. Just because you didn't get to read them doesn't mean they weren't said.
  
  The attacks are coming from you...and I'll respond accordingly. If you want to be treated with respect, treat others with respect and don't start off by being a douch...specifically with the comments you stated. I'll treat you exactly how you treat me.
  
  I can't win with people like you anyway...if I give you data, you'd say it's only a correlation, not fact. If I give you fact, you say it's made up. If I give you estimations or predictions, you'll say they are half-a$$ed and alarmist. So why bother arguing with someone like you? Since you have the answers to everything already, knock yourself out with them...no need for me to add to your genius.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  That's no excuse. There is no excuse for such behavior.
  
  Depending upon whatever non-disclosure agreements you are bound by, you could tell us with reasoned argument where many people's concerns and arguments have gone awry. You have never, ever done so. You just lash out like a 4 yr old on crack. Your vitreolic attacks on your presumptions of a person's intelligence don't count as a counter argument to the facts, concerns and opinions set forth by the person in question. As a result, nobody takes you seriously, it is impossible to discuss a particular issue with you, and as a result, you make yourself, and the technology you attempt to defend in this manner, a wide-open target for ridicule.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  With self-righteous aholes like you around, why wouldn't I be a prick to you? It's idiots like you who never listen...so why even bother? It's really too you get to benefit from the new tech...you should be left in the dark ages.
  
  If you want to be treated with respect, then start to at least listen....not make outbursts about how this is crap, that's false, this is fake, and that's a conspiracy...like so many around here. Do you even follow some of these threads and take note of how people attack things like H2 and fuel cell stuff? How do you expect others who believe in it as one viable solution to react?
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
SJ SWITCHGEAR MOTOR STARTER MANUFACTURERS, DOL MOTOR STARTER MANUFACTURERS, AC CONTACTORS MANUFACTURERS, MOTOR CONTROL PANEL, MOTOR CONTROL CENTRE, SUBMERSIBLE PUMP STARTER, SUBMERSIBLE PUMP CONTROLLER, STAR-DELTA STARTER, AC MOTOR STARTER MANUFACTURERS, SWITCHGEARS MANUFACTURERS, REVERSE/FORWARD STARTERS, BANGALORE, INDIA
SUBMERSIBLE PUMP CONTROLLER MANUFACTURERS
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
This is clearly not perpetual motion.
One day the seas will vanish.
One day the sun will burn out.
Nothing lasts for ever.
Perpetual in your lifetime?
I doubt it.
It will most likely crumble before you do.
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
... http://genastropsychica.blogspot.com/, didn't need any trip ! And you ? ...
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Anonymous
- 4 Years Ago
Very elegant design! Using the energy around it, without screwing up the environment in the process. This is the type of technology that will truly revolutionize our consumption of energy - not biofuels, not hydrogen, not nuclear. Just use the natural ambient energy gradients around the device in an intelligent manner.

It reminds me of geothermal HVAC systems, except that they are more invasive from the standpoint that you have to drill holes and put in pipes. Other than that, it's the same sort of idea: using ambient conditions to minimize the amount of energy needed to heat/cool the air in the building.

Geothermal, solar, wind and water are the keys to a sustainable future. These are the projects that need to be used more. They are already developed, it's a matter of deployment. Plunk a solar panel on a roof, any roof, anywhere in the world, and it generates electricity as long as there is sunlight; stick a turbine in a pasture or on the continental shelf, and it will generate electricity as long as the wind blows; put turbines in the middle of rivers and inlets by the sea, and electricity flows like the water and as reliable as the tides.

They all work; they all exist, with no mining, no drilling, no refining, no enriching, no electrolysis, no transport, minimal storage, no combustion, no emissions, and minimal waste. The only initial and periodic outlays are for manufacturing, maintaining and replacing the equipment used to harness and store the energy - even then, just about all of those technologies are fully recyclable, from the metals in the generators to the chemicals in the batteries.

From what I've read, it appears that no new powerplants would need to be built. It also appears that, as capacity of these four renewables grows, some existing plants will no longer be needed and will then be shut down for good (top of the list: coal plants).

Although this next sentence is not realistic because of the powerful lobbies, I'm going to say it anyway: divert the fossil fuel subsidies into solar panels and turbines. You'll see just how fast we can minimize burning stuff for energy if we put our money in the right place. The US has excellent companies for these things, particularly GE and their turbines.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  I share your enthusiasm... but lets be objective.
  
  1.7 watt-hours is not a lot... enough to run the equipment need, yes. But this is not in the ballpark of power generation for mass use. Could it be scaled up, sure. But then it will be, how did you put it, "screwing up the environment in the process".
  
  There are countless ways to extract energy from the environment. If you do it on a small scale (only powering an isolated system) then you can have negligible impact. But when you scale it up... there will always be something!
  
  Wind generators chop up birds, solar farms take away sunlight from land, etc. Tidal energy would be the next thing... but it may harm fish.
  
  To scale this up, I am sure there will be outrage against it because it causes damage of some kind.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  They don't need to be "scaled up" - they need to be distributed. Geronimo is an excellent example. I don't see an excuse for why every home and building in the US doesn't have solar panels on it.
  
  I don't like the big solar farms, either, because they need a ridiculous amount of water just to keep the panels or mirrors clean. And, they are built where there is lots of sun: deserts, where there's not much water.
  
  Are the wind turbines actually killing birds? Do you have any data for that? I thought bats had excellent echo-location and that birds had eyes - these things don't rotate fast, I've seen them - the animals should be able to steer clear of the blades, no? I'm sure there are exceptions, but I haven't heard or read that there's a significant amount of casualties. It can't be any worse than skyscrapers, where tens of thousands of birds fly smack into the mirrored exteriors and die each year, just in the US alone.
  
  The tidal projects, like the one in the East River in NYC, has sonar monitoring systems, and it turns out that the fish are smart: they stay close to the shores, away from the strongest tidal currents in the center of the river. And of course, the turbines need to be placed in the center of the river to catch the maximum currents. So, the fish solve the problem for us. Those turbines rotate slowly, as well, but I'm sure some fish may have been killed by them - nothing's ever 100% perfect.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  I have a 15 kWp PV-system mounted on my roof and harvest approx. 18000 kWh annually. I heat my home with a heat pump which averages about 4.2 COP and max. preflow temp. of 35 - 40Â° C. A small heat pump is connected to the return flow of the heating circuit for heating the hot water to 45 - 50Â° C. For heating and hot water and other electric appliances in the house I have a total consumption of approx. 10000 kWh per annum. That leaves approx. 8000 kWh for my EV which I never use-up completely. I don't need domestic or foreign oil or gas or anything else. I can't understand why so many people are reluctant to enjoy the same liberties from market dictators.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  Cool. I have seen those comments in other threads, and they appeared to be meant literally, so I felt obligated to reply.
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- Anonymous
  
  4 Years Ago
  haha... I should really add "sarcasm" tags.
  
  I meant that as a joke against rabid environmentalist that will focus on the ridiculous (such as birds and turbines.
  
  I prefer distribution of energy harvesting devices (in contrast to central power generation) as well because transporting energy can be inefficient.
  
  Geronimo is a great example... lets just hope PV systems continue to drop in price and rise in efficiency. When it hits a certain point, perhaps all new buildings may become energy independent.
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