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REPORT: Porsche to share platforms with VW, possibly 911
2010 Porsche 911 Turbo – Click above for high-res image gallery
Can you image a VW-badged Panamera? What about a 911-based product from Wolfsburg? It could happen according to Porsche CEO Michael Macht. Autocar reports that Macht says, "Porsche needs to become a strong pillar of VW," and part of that means sharing platforms and components. The two companies have been on a rocky collision course towards merging for years, and now that the deal is all but done, the business of identifying synergies between the two companies is on.
Porsche apparently is not worried about diluting its brand image by sharing platforms with VW, even if that includes the iconic 911. What they won't be sharing, however, is engines. Macht made it clear that "Engine development is a core value for Porsche." At the moment, the only Porsche model with an engine that wasn't developed in-house is the V6-powered Cayenne.
Putting aside your feelings about whether or not Porsche sharing its platforms with VW is a good idea, what are some positive results that can be imagined? A Panamera-based Phaeton? A 911-based Audi speedster? A Boxster-based production version of the VW Concept BlueSport?
Gallery: 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo
[Source: Autocar]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
xpolarx 2:33PM (10/23/2009)
No. Just no.
Reply
catchmyshadow 3:43PM (10/23/2009)
why not?
there is nothing wrong with the idea of sharing the 911 platform with e.g. Audi or Lambo as long as the 911 will be kept alive and will still stay in the hands of Porsche.
it is not that Audi will bring a rebadged 911 soon, it is just the platform which means u can create lots of different looking cars on it!
zamafir 4:16PM (10/23/2009)
I too would like a real dissenting opinion. Platform sharing? Fine. It's not as though the gallardo and R8 don't handle well. Like it or not, nostalgia and business are two diverging ideals. Porsche may just need to share platforms to survive.
wait. they already did.
Sorry, maybe we should get back to claiming the sky is falling all over again, with a deliberate blind eye to the cayenne and how crucial that shared platform is and was to porsches survival. Or maybe we should just dig up comments relating to VW’s purchasing of Bentley and Lamborghini to learn all about how the sky fell back then too.
xpolarx 4:38PM (10/23/2009)
A Porsche is a Porsche...plain and simple (and I mean REAL Porsches, not the Cheyenne). It's like nothing else on the road. And that's one of the selling points. You don't buy a Porsche because the styling is avant and bold, or because it has an eye-catching and luxo interior...because it isn't and it doesn't. But performance x feel x cost, it's the best enthusiasts car on the road.
I don't care what VW wants to do with these platforms---they'll never be able to do what Porsche does with them...and that's what scares me. Would they spend more money to make their version as competitive, or would they save money across the board by dumbing down the performance on Porsche's cars so the VW versions will sell? I hope VW's board of directors isn't that sheisty, but you never know.
PJ 4:43PM (10/23/2009)
The Cayenne already shares a platform (and a whole lot else) with the Touareg, so this isn't really a drastic change. Moreover, VW and Porsche have been intimately connected since Porsche's first model--the 356 was adapted from the original Beetle, itself designed by Ferdinand Porsche in the 1930s. Porsche (the company, not the man) continued to do much of Volkswagen's development work up through the '60s and '70s, and Porsche's entry-level 914 used a Volkswagen drivetrain and several other parts.
zamafir 5:34PM (10/23/2009)
"A Porsche is a Porsche...plain and simple (and I mean REAL Porsches, not the Cheyenne). It's like nothing else on the road. And that's one of the selling points."
Agreed, every porsche 'feels' like a porsche.
"You don't buy a Porsche because the styling is avant and bold, or because it has an eye-catching and luxo interior...because it isn't and it doesn't. But performance x feel x cost, it's the best enthusiasts car on the road."
Yup, agreed, audi styling and audi interior have nothing to do with platform sharing, so we're still in agreement here.
"I don't care what VW wants to do with these platforms---they'll never be able to do what Porsche does with them...and that's what scares me. "
And here's where you get crazy. VW's not doing anything with Porsche. Porsche is going to engineer and run porsche. We're talking modular platforms, not entire cars.
"Would they spend more money to make their version as competitive, or would they save money across the board by dumbing down the performance on Porsche's cars so the VW versions will sell?"
More crazy, this simply isn't how car companies work, least of all VAG. you engineer your halo car, than let bits trickle DOWN with time, not up. This isn't the IS-F we're talking about, cars who's performance derivatives were not calculated into the development from day one. And it isn't a car, but a platform. Not even a chassis.
"I hope VW's board of directors isn't that sheisty, but you never know."
We do know. We have the example set with Bentley and Lamborghini, awesome bits for premium cars which eventually move downward. Again, all the focus in R&D initially is the PREMIUM car, not the derivative, VW does not engineer a new passat and hand the car to audi to derivative an A4. Again, Platforms do not equal chassis or entire cars, and VAG simply does not operate this way.
I love porsche, love the cayman, the 911 turbo (aside from that pathetic steering wheel which cheapens the experience a bit) etc, but my appreciation for the brand in no way clouds the reality of how effective platform sharing works and how vw has shared platforms up to today.
Now for a sane take: Awesome. VAG platforms with Porsche engines? Boxterfanatic where are you?! A blusport/R4 without vw’s blown turbos and instead the correct Porsche sourced engine, awesome news!
Dude 6:20PM (10/23/2009)
@Zamafir
"Platforms do not equal chassis or entire cars, and VAG simply does not operate this way."
Well put.
People keep bringing up Touareg/Cayenne. There is some some platform sharing there (to say the least), but the Cayenne isn't exactly a legendary car that to many defines a genre.
Keep in mind also that the Touareg 4.2L V8 (RIP - in the US anyway) was sourced from Audi while Porsche built its own V8. VW has proven over and over again that they understand the business of platform and parts sharing without going all Pontiac on us.
sparrk 6:43PM (10/23/2009)
good things will come from this. anyone remembers the Audi RS2 ? look what it says on it's engine :
http://images.europeancarweb.com/features/0408_05z+1990_audi_coupe_quattro_rs2+engine_bay_view.jpg
more platform sharing , more $$$ for VW/Porsche, better cars for us.
sparrk 6:58PM (10/23/2009)
@ xpolarx , first , it's spelled "Cayenne", second , the board of directors you talk about is made of the same families as before, if anything they will turn Porsche back into a pure sportscar manufacturer, some say Piech is already talking about a new Carrera GT like supercar.
AMcA 8:36PM (10/23/2009)
That's it. The next Corvette's starting to look even better.
Now if I can just overcome the . . . ummm . . . image problem. Can my self-image take the hit?
gefinley 2:33PM (10/23/2009)
The painful, self-inflicted death of Porsche continues.
Reply
Kattleox 4:09PM (10/23/2009)
REPORT: New Toyota sourced V6 to replace flat six in new GTI based 911!
the4thheat 9:46PM (10/23/2009)
Wow, Porsche is lucky it's German and not Japanese or it'd have to commit seppuku about now from the shame.
WE FAIL AT TRYING TO DEFEAT VW AND NOW THEY WILL BUILD A VW BUG WITH THE 911 PLATFORM! *stabs self in gut then slowly bleeds to death*
BoxerFanatic 2:35PM (10/23/2009)
I thought Peich would have a better understanding of Porsche's market placement and image than to dilute it with a lot of platform sharing.
I VERY much hope not... but I wonder if 997 and 987 are the last of an era.
People talk about pre and post AMF-Harleys, or pre-CBS-Fender Stratocasters.
People are going to talk about pre-VW-era Porsches if they dilute this brand name by diluting the products that define the reputations.
And it could be much worse than just moving from air to water cooled 911s.
Reply
Rich 2:58PM (10/23/2009)
What is a "pre-VW-era Porsche" please? Some kind of time-machine thing?
The Volkswagen Maybeetle even predates Porsche's development of it.
vespid82 3:00PM (10/23/2009)
Rich, IIRC, Porsche was founded in 1931... Volkswagen in 1937
sparrk 7:34PM (10/23/2009)
@ Rich , voila pre ww2 Porsche :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche_Mixte_Hybrid
Paul 2:36PM (10/23/2009)
Oh, calm down. VW and Porsche have always been joined, as Ferdinand Porsche did the designs for the original VWs, and the earliest Porsches were gussied-up VWs. As someone who owns two Porsches, I don't see anything wrong with this at all... it should make both companies stronger.
Now, bring us the new 914/Bluesport already...
Reply
BoxerFanatic 3:08PM (10/23/2009)
They have been related, They have not shared a lot of chassis. A 911 is not a VW Beetle, even if there are familial resemblances in layout. They are not the same car any more than you are the same person as your sibling, even if you kind of look a bit alike.
Those that did, have not been without their issues, like 914 and 924. Decent, even good cars... but they were designed as VWs, and Audis respectively, and had trouble catching on under the porsche badge.
Cayenne has not been widely accepted by the Porsche sports-car enthusiasts, and although it does feed the bottom line, it is essentially a whole different branch of Porsche. Porsche is almost 2 brands now... one with racing and sports car programs, and the other building larger passenger cars, being Cayenne and Panamera. There is a distinct line between the 9xx cars and the front-V-engined line.
If they dilute the 9xx line, and turn it into something that is not purpose built and distinctly 'Porsche'... it will HURT Porsche's sports car reputation. It is that reputation that sells Cayennes and Panameras, by association. There are plenty of other hot-rod sedans, and even SUVs out there from other companies, like Rangeys, and Jags, or Mercs, or BMWs... Porsche's sports car reputation sells other Porsche cars.
Screw with that, at your peril, Porsche/VW.
Dondonel 4:22PM (10/23/2009)
@BoxerFanatic,
Actually, the 356 and the Beetle share pretty much all the mechanics (even though the components are not interchangeable), including the horrid suspension geometry of the Beetle (TB front and rear with swing arms). Later, when 911 came, Beetle was upgraded to pretty much the same standard (TB front and rear, mcpherson strut front, trailing arm rear).
Besides, I don't think VW is keen to return to this path - it took Porsche almost 4 decades to transform the original rear engine configuration into a safe and competitive option. Rear engine was extremely popular once but everybody abandoned it - today only 911 is rear engine.