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Toyota Prius PHEV prototype - click above for high-res image gallery

Stephen Beatty, managing director of Toyota Canada is not to thrilled with plug-in rebate plan announced by Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty this week. In fact, Beatty sees the plan as more of a subsidy for General Motors and the Chevy Volt than a real plan for promoting plug-in vehicles. While McGuinty made the announcement at a Toronto Chevrolet dealer where a Volt concept was on hand. Toyota – and presumably other automakers – was not consulted or even notified about the plan before the announcement.

While the plan will provide financial incentives for buying ER-EVs, EVs and PHEVs, non-plug hybrids will be left out in the cold. Given Toyota's oft-stated skepticism about plug-in vehicles, it's no wonder they are upset. Given the Ontario government's investment in GM, it's not unexpected for them to do things that might promote the direction GM is going. The government's policy may well be too specific and should perhaps provide some incentives for other types of cleaner, more efficient vehicles like hybrids and diesels.


[Source: LeaderPost]


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  • 27 Comments
      • 6 Years Ago
      All of you that got rebates for buying a hybrid, Toyota wants you to give the money back.

      No wait, maybe Toyota wants to undo the sale. Yea, that's it.
        • 6 Years Ago
        The tax credit for alternative motor vehicles, doled out by the US taxpayers, was just over $3,000 for the 2005 MY Toyota hybrids, and was phased out for Toyota hybrids in two years because of the number of vehicles sold in such a short period of time.

        That's less than half of the US credit ($7500) for electric vehicles and one-third of the Ontario plan ($10,000), and unlike the tax credit for hybrids, this one does not have a sunset clause.

        Taking into consideration that for every Volt sold, GM will lose money, I think that says a lot about the true cost, and why Toyota has said that it will not push electric vehicles for the retail market (fleet-only sales with the Prius plug-in).
      • 6 Years Ago
      shut up toyota... LOL this is going to knock 10 grand off my tesla model S purchase. :)
      • 6 Years Ago
      Toyota, that's what you get for making BS "hybrids" instead of real serial hybrids and EVs. The whole point of driving a plug-in car isn't to get another 5 MPG, it's to *not use gas at all for most of your driving.*

      If you don't want to build plug-in cars, fine.... quit whining.
      • 6 Years Ago
      BTW, Canada is not as afraid of Nuclear as the US. The more the vehicle is powered from the grid, the less C02.
      • 6 Years Ago
      "Toyota chafes at Ontario $10,000 EV rebate, calls it GM subsidy"

      Well, DUH!

      Central Banking, Fiat Currency and the resulting legislative malfeasance of Political Corporate Favoritism (pay to play) known as Crony Capitalism or Socialism/Fascism has replaced Free Market Capitalism.

      The market is not truly free as long as:

      1) A central bank can use fiat currency to inflate/deflate the currency supply and prices while artificially manipulating interest rates and credit availability causing market boom & bust cycles and bubbles which must ultimately burst.

      2) Politicians can borrow and spend without budget constraints or conscience due to the unlimited availability of fiat currency available (at interest) from the central bank. This is why only a 100% commodity backed currency is stable money and why fiat currencies ALWAYS lead to hyperinflation and systemic economic failure.

      3) Politicians can give, loan to or invest public money in private companies.

      4) Politicians can play legislative favoritism in return for campaign “support”.

      5) Politicians can ignore some parts of the law while bending others outside of their original intent. This is rule of Men, not Rule of Law and it is Tyranny!

      Yet when Crony Capitalism fails, the Socialists & Fascists blame the "free" market which they have been legislatively manipulating.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism

      I’m sure that Toyota is NOT the only company that’s angry! What about all those companies that were ready to fill in the market void with BETTER products once GM went bankrupt? Should they get EQUAL taxpayer money in order to level the playing field?

      Where does this Crony Capitalism end? Hyperinflation, Loss of “faith & credit” in the fiat currency, Systemic Economic Failure and National Bankruptcy!
        • 6 Years Ago
        Paul,

        Good Question, thanks!

        As you said there is a current glut in supply which will take many months to clear up. This would have given the new car companies time to ramp up using PRIVATE investors instead of taxpayer debt. Of course, in order for this to happen they would have to tap the current supply chain for parts. ANY good parts company would LOVE to have many smaller customers than just a few big ones. After all, NOBODY likes to have all their eggs (sales) in one basket!

        Do you like choice? The separate divisions of GM & Chrysler would have been sold off to PRIVATE investors to compete AGAINST each other. PLUS here's the top 10 new car companies:

        http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4291426.html

        Imagine all these companies competing against each other for YOUR money. This vigorous competition would mean lower cost, higher quality and much more innovation which is all good for US, the consumers and less crony capitalism empowering politicians.

        Like even MORE choice?

        http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/teams

        How are ANY of these companies going to compete against the US Treasury and bottomless taxpayer funding of companies that are "too big to fail"?

        Perhaps if we had 50 small car companies competing, NONE would be "too big to fail" and NONE would ever get a taxpayer funded bailout. This would be good for the consumer, but bad for corporate profits and political coffers. This would be good for Free Market Capitalism and BAD for Crony Capitalism.

        Crony Capitalism is why the politicians voted for the bailouts... POWER!

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
        • 6 Years Ago
        Tim: I would agree with you if anything like a "free" market existed here in the U.S. Unfortunately, it does not, and this is not due to some malicious intervention by the government. You mentioned the government manipulating the markets with central banks and "fiat currency." I would argue that the large corporations control the market much more strictly than the government ever has. How do you think we got these corporations that are "too big to fail" in the first place? Because as they grew, they got more market power which allowed them to control the market more and more tightly, squeezing out other companies and drowning competition. Ideally, it *would* be nice to let those big whales fail to promote competition, but what about all the normal people who work for them? Should we just shove them out on the street? Compared to that, I think that giving them a bit of a nudge in the right direction, which seems to be what the government is trying to do, might be a more humane solution. And, who knows? Now that GM and others aren't as powerful, maybe more competition will rise up and give people more options.
        • 6 Years Ago
        GoodCheer said;

        "... which would lead you right back to only having a few large companies."

        Good point, but that would take time. Plus YOU underestimate the huge bureaucratic black hole that exists as entities, both corporate and governmental increase in size.

        This level upon level of middle management dramatically increases costs, slows response to market cues and would not exist with many small companies competing with each other.

        Faster market response and much less middle management bureaucracy would offset much if not all of the large company “economy of scale” benefit since the parts suppliers would still be producing many of the parts at scale. PLUS the market would adjust as long as some federal gov’t “car czar” didn’t try to design cars in Washington.

        Remember, at one time we had MANY car companies and their consolidation via acquisition & attrition took over 100 years.

        Competition is Good! Monopoly is BAD!

        Central Planning and Crony Capitalism is VERY, VERY BAD!!!
        • 6 Years Ago
        Tim please provide some evidence of all of these alleged companies that were ready to "fill in the market void" because I assert they don't and didn't exist. The world currently has a huge amount of excess production capacity in regards to automobiles, that plus the huge barriers to entry into the automotive market would pretty much prevent anyone from filling any void that would have been created by GMs collapse. In fact it is pretty much agreed upon had GM gone chapter 7 that the whole market would have collapsed due to the failures of key suppliers that such a liquidation would have created.
        • 6 Years Ago
        Tim, I think you under-appreciate the effect of economies of scale on the cost of manufactured goods. This would do two things:

        It would make the products of the 50 car-makers MORE expensive, because each model would be produced in batches of 10,000 rather than 100,000.

        When those 'not too big to fail' companies started to fail, the companies with the lowest overhead -PER CAR- could gobble up the abandoned market share much more easily than new market entrants, which would lead you right back to only having a few large companies.
      • 6 Years Ago
      This sounds like a golden opportunity for a Prius retrofitter like Adelman's PICC. They could easily charge 12k - 15k$ for their plug-in conversions and the taxpayer will pick up most of the tab. Am I missing something?
      • 6 Years Ago
      Have the dealer sell you a Prius with the Hymotion PHEV conversion preinstalled, save the entire cost of the conversion.

      I'm not seeing Toyota's problem here...
      • 6 Years Ago
      Will GM's bankruptcy affect a site like this for truck and auto parts ?
      • 6 Years Ago
      I echo most of the comments here. Toyota simply needs to release a plug in and BAM! they are taking advantage as well. Not like they don't already totally own all the mind share...Toyota sounds like a little cry baby on this one.
      • 6 Years Ago
      I'm sure GM chafes at all of the welfare and protections the Japanese government offers its manufacturing interests...

      just sayin'
        • 6 Years Ago
        Good point. And was Toyota crying subsidy when the Yaris qualified for the highest Canadian fuel-economy rebate and the Honda Fit didn't?

        These new big rebates are trying to get cars on the road that run largely off overnight electrical grid energy. That's a fundamentally different proposition from cars that just squeeze more miles out of gasoline. If Toyota wants a piece, they can build a car that delivers a daily commute from electricity.
        • 6 Years Ago
        Electricity is even more heavily government subsidized in Ontario than the chevy volt!!
      • 6 Years Ago
      Incentive, meet Toyota, Toyota, Incentive.

      If you can get your plug in to market soon and at a reasonable price, you too can benefit from the PHEV subsidy. Perhaps stop whining, and get busy developing.

        • 6 Years Ago
        I don't believe the size of a battery is patentable.
        • 6 Years Ago
        How about all of them stop using my fucking taxpayer money to sell cars I will never buy?
        • 6 Years Ago
        That's not it. Like the US version of the tax credit - I suspect - the Ontario bill specifies the size of the battery, which means that only the Volt would qualify.

        That seems unfortunate to limit competition in electric vehicle sales.
      • 6 Years Ago
      Toyota seems to spend way too much time these days criticizing other technologies and policies.
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