Porsche considering Audi TTS engine for cheaper Boxster?
2010 Porsche Boxster - Click above for high-res image gallery
With sales slumping and money suddenly pretty tight, Porsche would no-doubt love to move more metal. Sure, the Stuttgart, Germany sports car maker has assured us that it will make money this year and next, but it wouldn't hurt to have a little insurance. According to Auto Motor & Sport, more sales could come from a cheaper yet more powerful Boxster. The site is reporting that Porsche is looking into the Audi TTS engine. At 272 hp and 258 lb-ft, the turbocharged 2.0-liter engine would eclipse Porsche's standard issue boxer engine by a useful 17 hp and 45 lb-ft of torque.
If the story from Auto Motor & Sport is to believed, the Audi-fied Boxster would be cheaper, too. The site is quoting a price that drops from €46,500 ($64,000 in US funds) down to €40,000 ($55,000). The only problem for Porsche purists is that the TTS engine isn't exactly a boxer engine. But the faithful got over the Cayenne (maybe), so we're sure an affordable Boxster that is lighter (we're guessing), more powerful, and cheaper will put their minds at ease.
Interestingly, the article also mentions anew a lower-priced roadster that would sit at the bottom of the Porsche food chain. The sub-Boxster Porsche would have to start somewhere around $40,000, and while it would almost surely boost Porsche sales, it could also cut into the brand's prestige if it isn't properly executed.
[Source: Auto Motor & Sport via Motor Authority]
_opt_thumbnail.jpg)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
why not the LS2LS7? 5:32PM (6/17/2009)
Sounds workable to me, but will a vertical engine really fit in that horizontal engine bay?
Reply
zamafir 5:36PM (6/17/2009)
Yup, sounds great, porsche's motivation for trying to consume vw is becoming clear.
also yes, it'll be fine, the 2.0T has been equipped in transverse and longitudinal configurations in various vw and audi production cars.
BoxerFanatic 5:50PM (6/17/2009)
@Zamafir.
No, it won't fit.
First of all it is far too tall. an inline engine is tall by definition. A FLAT engine is not nearly as tall, and has a better center of gravity for it.
Second of all, it is too long. A flat 4 or even a flat 6 is only a bit longer than two or three cylinder lengths, but is wide. An inline engine might fit transversely, but then you have to package a FWD-style transverse, offset gearbox with it. Longitudinal gearboxes are more robust, less heat-prone, have a more logical and simple layout, and equal length side half-shaft outputs, not steeply offset to one side of the engine.
The boxster chassis is not built for a tall engine, and certainly not for a longitudinally LONG, and tall engine. It is designed for a BOXER, and is BETTER that way. The car is not overly long, not overly tall, not overly heavy, and doesn't have the drawbacks of a transverse engine layout.
That is what makes the 987 chassis so GOOD, is it's packaging, and the benefits of a flat engine and longitudinal drivetrain.
If they ruin that, I will be extremely sorely put-out. After Subaru ruins the appearance of it's entire lineup, if Porsche dilutes their mid-engined sports car away from boxer engines...
anger. Lots of ANGER.
dwightB 5:53PM (6/17/2009)
@ zamafir
Transverse and longitudinal orientation have nothing to do with what he was asking. :-X
TigerMil 5:54PM (6/17/2009)
Why not flop it aka BMW flying bricks?
I see the crankshaft being somewhat out of centerline, but that can be worked out with a new trans or morse chain transfer to clutch mounted on transmssion.
zamafir 5:57PM (6/17/2009)
@BoxerFanatic, i'm sorry but where does it say they're going to put it in the current gen boxter? We've know the bluesport concept would proffer Audi and Porsche models should it reach production. Porsche will just add their nose and tail to the bluesport like they did with their expensive touareg and call it a day. It'll still bear the boxer name, and makes perfect sense given their arcane pricing scheme which prevents the cayman from trumping the 911 and which would create a fair amount of space below the boxter but above the vw product.
I'll be a bit more clear when I say it's fine. It'll be fine in the cheaper boxter it's intended for, but not for the current gen car.
Now if you excuse me I need to exercise the 914 and tell it about the future sibling.
zamafir 5:59PM (6/17/2009)
@dwightB, yeah I realized that after the fanatic's rant, i'm on a different tangent, current gen (makes no sense) vs forthcoming (a lot more sense).
Mr stol 11:31PM (6/17/2009)
Well, the engine, originally comes from the Audi S3 where it is actually slightly tilted already, so I guess they might be able to tilt it even further to fit it.
BoxerFanatic 5:39PM (6/17/2009)
NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No Porsche sports cars without boxer engines.
An inline engine won't fit in the Boxster chassis. Keep it that way.
I can ignore Panamera. I can vehemently ignore Cayenne. That is a whole different branch of the brand.
The 997 and 987, and their successors are Porsche sports cars. They aren't tarted up VWs and Audis.
I want BlueSport to make a good VW/Audi production sports car, but it is transverse. It should STAY VW/Audi.
Porsche has tried to sell re-badged VW/Audi designs before, even if they did some of the design work... 914 and 924. 914 was not the car it could have been, due to the body and interior, even though it DID have a boxer engine. The 924 wasn't really on it's game until the 944 and especially 951 (944 Turbo), S2, and 968, and even then it appealed to a bit of a different crowd than the 911 did.
I would much rather see Porsche put a new 928 on the market, developed from a smaller, less complex Panamera chassis, with RWD, and a Porsche V8.
Don't undercut the 987 with a Porsche-crested Audi. PLEASE.
Cut two cylinders off the Boxster's new engine, and offer it as a flat 4 base model. But not inline transverse. Leave that to VW/Audi.
A short to medium term financial issue is not worth losing enthusiast respect. Porsche should be smarter than that, and offer an intelligent new product, not just a hand-me-up hail-mary pass of a product.
Reply
AMcA 8:28PM (6/17/2009)
EXACTLY!
They're not talking about a Porsche here. They have to stop building FrankenPorsches, or no one is going to take them seriously anymore.
Tomac 7:44AM (6/18/2009)
I certainly have no emotions invested here, as I'm not a huge Porsche fan to begin with. New ones are out of my price range, and while I like the 356 and late 60s 911s, they're pricey to restore. Besides, I'm at a point in my life where 2-seaters just don't make any sense.
That said, I agree with BoxerFanatic that Porsche should stick to the boxer engine. It fits with their design philosophy and, along with rear-engine placement, is one of the defining characteristics of the brand. This is not to say they shouldn't try other configurations if the boxer just won't work, but in this case it sounds like the best choice anyway.
I feel much the same way about BMW and inline sixes. If they adopt a V6 anytime soon, you'll see a rant from me.
Rich 9:21AM (6/18/2009)
You're kind of right.
A Boxter without a boxer engine sounds silly. Any Porsche any time ever doesn't sound so bad. If it's going to be an entry level model (which the current Boxter is) that's got to be a good thing. I mean, it's not as if they use air-cooled engines any more, is it?
nastinupe 5:47PM (6/17/2009)
Porsche is going in the wrong direction. What we need is a car ABOVE the 911, not below. But not a $450,000 car either. I'm talking about a $175,000 Porsche that looks similar to the Carrera GT. Low slung, wide, mid-engined and quick.
Reply
sparrk 7:41PM (6/17/2009)
or a new 928.
akatsuki 1:01AM (6/18/2009)
What they really need to do is let go of the 911, which is hitting the limits of its layout and move the Boxster/Cayman up. Then they can bring something else in underneath. The 911 GT2 and the other high end Porsches just aren't up to the A8/Gallardo platform.
nastinupe 9:22AM (6/18/2009)
@akatsuki
You said:
"The 911 GT2 and the other high end Porsches just aren't up to the A8/Gallardo platform"
Are you F'en serious? Do you even know what the GT2 is capable of? The current GT2 (Which is about to be improved BTW) has the 10th fastest ring time for production cars... EVER. Not to mention that the 8th spot is held by the Carerra GT. The 911 Turbo hold's the 15th spot.
You don't even get to a Lambo in the line up until the 19th spot, which is held by the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640. The 21st spot is held by another Porsche, the 997 GT3. The "old" 2001 (996) 911 GT2 hold's the 25th spot, followed by the brand spankin new Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, which hold's the 26th spot. And wow... the older 996 GT3 RS hold's the 27th spot.
So it looks like Lambo is a generation behind Porsche, not to mention they cost about $100,000 more.
This is a car forum, you can't just throw out blanket statements that have no factual bearing without expecting someone to call you out. The 911's platform may be dated and be obsolete on paper, but heck, the GT-R isn't what most would consider a true sports car either. But it's not the size of the ship, it's the motion of the ocean that matters.
MikeofLA 5:49PM (6/17/2009)
I like BoxerFanatics idea. A smaller, 4 cylinder (turbo?) boxer engine would be the way to go on this. Throwing a Audi TSFI would get the job done, but what would you be sacrificing. Ferrari isn't selling a 6 cylinder F430 to move more cars.
Although, in argument FOR the idea, Porsche isn't really about purists anymore. (except for the 911 with the engine in the wrong place). The Audi is a nice engine by anyone's standards and it would be relatively cheap compared to engineering an entirely new engine.
Either way, I wouldn't buy one anyway, I'm more of a Caymen/911TT kind of guy.
Reply
TigerMil 5:50PM (6/17/2009)
Good idea....gets the boxster further away from the 911.
As the article states, however, Porsche purists will hate the idea.
Reply
BoxerFanatic 6:04PM (6/17/2009)
Why would one want to move the boxster/cayman away from 911?
The 987 platform, arguably, is the purer sports car than the 997.
If anything, I want 987 to be MORE like 997. Put the Carrera or Carrera S engine in the Boxster S and Cayman S.
Make a Cayman GT or Club Sport with GT3-like hardware.
I wish the roofline of Cayman was a bit more graceful like the 996/997, with a shallower arch, and a longer line, with longer, less abrupt rear quarter windows, even if it were to enlarge the flying buttress effect of the rear hatch, with the rear window glass still being a steeper rake.
If I had the money, I'd put the GT2 front end, or at least the 997 turbo front end, with 997 oval headlights, and the LED winglet indicators, on a Cayman body.
I wish the Cayman and Boxster were not held down to preserve the "aura" of the 911 as much as it is. I would be fine with MORE overlap. That doesn't mean I don't like the 997, especially in AWD forms, which is far easier to do with rear-engine layout.
Porsche does not need to be diluted. A front or mid engined V8 sports car with Grand Touring pretensions would be fine. I could even see a 944/968 revival, with a longitudinal front engined Inline 4, rear-transaxle RWD, 2+2 coupe.
But do NOT mess around with diluting the mid-engined boxer sports cars, the 987 cars. They are the only ones of their kind on the market. Enhance them, or even offer base line flat 4 versions, but do not dilute them with non-Porsche hardware from the factory.
thefronge 5:53PM (6/17/2009)
Clearly all of you need a history lesson
Porsche sports cars WITHOUT boxer engines:
924
928
944
968
Quit your bitching, it's going to be really fast no matter what.
Reply