Exactly. I don't know what the hype about the X bow is all about. I mean its not as good looking as the Atom, and it looks a bit heavier too. Not to mention it runs a VW mill vs. the Honda K20 block. (you can argue all you want, but Honda makes the best Inline 4s on Earth, read below for why.) I'm voting for the Ariel, just cause it looks more purposed, this X bow has too much body cladding.

I know, i know, Ecotecs make slightly more torque, but an engine is so much more then figures, Ecotecs aren't as Rev happy, and plus as ricer as it sounds; you have to admit the feeling of Vtec kicking in is fun, and trying to maintain the high revs is sickeningly enjoyable.

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I was just going to say, it would be interesting to see a comparison of this vs. an Ariel Atom

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Because the S2000 engine isn't making 250 lb-ft of torque several hundred rpm off of idle. VTEC at 6500 rpm is fun, but so is full boost at 2000.

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This is a very light vehicle. And it's a track vehicle. On the track, you never get below half of redline.

The lack of torque simply would not be an issue.

Besides, the S2000 engine makes about peak torque at 3500 rpm, and with a 50% higher redline than a VW or Ecotec, it would be spinning 3500rpm at the same speed than the VW or Ecotec would be spinning 2150rpm.

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quote: -
"This is a very light vehicle. And it's a track vehicle. On the track, you never get below half of redline." -

And the pigeon-holed nature of a high-revving, low torque engine does fit this type of vehicle, but really only this type of vehicle.

While I agree that the S2000 engine(F20C later F22C1) might not make a bad choice in a car such as this, but simply because of its single-purpose nature. There is a reason the S2000's engine is only in one vehicle and that vehicle is a lightweight roadster. It's just not suited for use in anything else. Outside of a racetrack, few people prefer to be bouncing off the rev limiter in their vehicles(at least not consistently). The high-end power of the S2000 engine demands that. The 2.2L version remedied the torque part slightly, but at the expense of 1000RPM off the redline(8000 vs. 9000).

By the way, everything I've seen lists the torque peak of the F20C to be 7500RPM, not 3500. The updated, 2.2L F22C1 increased the torque slightly and moved the peak down to 6800RPM. The HP peaks are also equally high, at 8300RPM in the F20C and 7800RPM in the F22C1.

Here's a copy of dyno traces of both engines: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0403scc_2004_honda_s2000/photo_05.html There's a significant uptick in both HP and torque at 6K RPM where VTEC hits(i.e. the only part of the tach worth being in).

That said, the reason this KTM uses a VW/Audi engine is because KTM and Audi collaborated on this vehicle. KTM sought out Audi to help them out and provide assitance. There are more Audi components in the X-Bow than the engine. All KTM vehicles will use a VW/Audi engine. Honestly, I think the 2.0T is a great choice, at least the best choice in the VW/Audi lineup for sure.

I like the Atom, but if I were really laying out the cash, I gotta say, I think I'd take the X-Bow. It's just a bad-ass looking car IMO. Though, if I had the cash, I'd likely be able to afford, and would own, both.

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quote: -
"Besides, the S2000 engine makes about peak torque at 3500 rpm" -

Re-reading it, I guess you are saying that the torque made at 3500RPM is fairly close to the torque peak even if it's not the actual peak.

I guess you could say it that way, the S2000 does have a fairly flat torque curve. But, it's till quite a low one.

It's akin to saying that a runner can consistently run 7min. miles but occasionally can run as fast as 6mins. Sure 7mins is near his peak, but that peak isn't much to brag about.

Again though, I agree that the F20C or F22C1 would not be a bad choice in a car such as this. But, I still am puzzled by the thought of such an engine being considered a good street engine where it's potential is rarely used and extracting its max power on the street is mostly inconvenient.

In a lightweight track car though, excellent choice.

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It doesn't have 350HP, it has 240.

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I'm not a Honda fanboy, I love cars of all countries. I respect the LS9, I love Ferrari V8s, BMW's I6s.

But you have to give credit where credit is due, Honda is probably the best inline 4 producer; 14 million Vtec equipped engines built in the last couple of decades, not ONE Vtec mechanical problem claimed on warranty. Which is much more then i can say about modern VW engineering (old Bugs ran forever), which is known for less then favourable reliability. (Look at the Touareg's horrendous reliability)

S2000's F20C is probably the most powerful production NA inline 4 engine available. (Best power/displacement ratio).

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And beyond power/displacement ratio (called specific output), the S2000 motor has a good power/mass (or dip volume) ratio by virtue of not requiring a turbocharger and intercoolers to make that power.

So it ends up lighter and smaller than the VW TFSI or GM Ecotec. It's a pretty good motor if you need 240HP and aren't afraid of using revs to get it.

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ls2ls7 did you even read the article?

or did you read what i wrote ?

the article says the abt tuned car has 300 hp reflashed by abt.

i said reflashed by revo technik (google it) the car has +350hp and 340lb/ft with flash and the rebuild kit of the high preassure pump (i know i have a 2.0tfsi engine)

all torque from 2000rpm all the way up to 7500rpm

so i rather prefer the 2.0 tfsi engine than any k20 or f20c, as a matter of fact the 2.0tfsi won 3 years straight best engine award.

it was the first direct injection gasoline engine and is very reliable

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