SF is amazing. So is CGI.

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I live in sf... it's torture on your car (and your budget!), but yes, it's fun :)

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I've read mixed reviews on the new B8 A4/A5. Some give the cars praise for nearly matching BMW in terms of handling, while others say they're huge disappointments and still feel decidedly nose-heavy. I have to say I believe the later, especially when the head engineer himself agrees that the car is still nose-heavy. The engineer claims the marketers would not let him set up the car as he pleased, insisting the new cars have the familiar Audi nose-heavy feel as to not alienate returning customers. He does hope to get his way on the RS5 though. It doesn't sound like they follow their own slogan "Truth in Engineering".


" At the end of my drive, the chassis engineer asked whether the new front axle layout made much difference. I didn't want to offend the guy, so I made noises about the improved steering accuracy. But given that he'd asked, I had to say the S5 still felt nose-heavy and lifeless at the limit. "Exactly," he flatly replied.

Seems the new layout means he can make the car far more playable, but the marketing types told him he had to pull it back to the usual Audi understeer because the customers like it - but have they tried anything else? Ah well, here's hoping he gets his way on the RS5. "
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2007/05/stories/10/3.html


"How did that happen? "I agree with you," says Dr Horst Glaser, Audi's dynamics chief, when this opinion is ventured. It turns out that Audi's marketing people wanted the A5 still to feel like a "typical Audi " in order not to alienate current owners, and Dr Glaser is not pleased at being forced to compromise his efforts. All that work sabotaged, and with it the chance of making the new Audi appeal to BMW drivers. It's all very odd."
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/road-tests/bmws-3-is-still-the-magic-number-448826.html


"The threat from the C-class is not to be underestimated, but the Mercedes is nowhere near as good to drive as the 3-series, while the new Audi A4 has turned out to be a sizable disappointment."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article4963121.ece

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I like the A4 too but I'm not sure about "easily besting it's same priced rivals" when the A4 3.2 does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds compared to 4.9-5.0 from both IS350 and 335i and 5.8 for the C350.
The 265 hp V6 is arguably the less performance oriented version as the 2.0T is a much more tunable engine. As for the S4, now that's a different story.

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Neat, well, instead of reading reviews, why not drive the car. As I did. On the track. With it's competitors. Then come back with your own analysis. As I did. There is no comparing the B8 A4 or 3 series to the C300 or is250 AWD, the latter two are a dismal failure on the track. There's no way to miss it when driving these cars back to back. the B8 squarely in the 3 series's game, it's one of the reasons it outsold it where it matters this year.

I'm with you though, if I'm lazy and don't have the conviction to test a car i'll default to the reviews, but most I've read in the magazines i respect (CAR, EVO, etc) have not been lackluster. Rather they've praised the B8 for continuing the progress of the B7 while providing a slightly softer car than the 3 series. Which is great. If someone want's bwm's cash cow, they buy it. I'm not sure any Audi owners are clamoring for Audi to produce a facsimile of the 3 series, but rather continue to aptly dominate that niche between BMW's (previously) sporty bias and the boats Mercedes builds in this class.

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"There are three main things wrong with the A5 idea. Here’s the first. Compared with other Audis with front-mounted, longitudinal engines, it has a revised disposition of major components. The differential is now between the engine and the clutch, which brings the front wheels forward to the benefit of weight distribution and looks, and the lower-mounted steering rack is connected to the front wheels by shorter, less flexible steering arms. Yet, to drive, the A5 – and S5 especially – still has the nose-heavy, inert feel the new chassis was surely intended to eradicate.

So, what happened? Dr Horst Glaser, Audi’s dynamics chief, is clearly annoyed. ‘I agree with you,’ he says, ‘but the marketing people insisted it was this way so the A5 would feel familiar to Audi buyers.’ What about those buyers Audi seeks to steal from BMW, then? ‘I hope we can change it gradually,’ Dr Glaser replies, ruefully."
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/209164/audi_a5.html

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Had to ad one more review. When an engineer openly admits things like that about his own product, it pretty much turns me off to that product. But, I sincerely hope he gets his way on the RS5 and on all future Audis (because I have to admit I do like Audis).

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Nice, how about some quotes on the A4, a four door, in relation to it's class, vs the A5 - a car I'm not discussing, which, while based on the same platform, shares different stablemates than the A4?

Thanks in advance :).

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No quotes directly related to what the engineer said, but some suggesting it applies to the A4 as well.


"The threat from the C-class is not to be underestimated, but the Mercedes is nowhere near as good to drive as the 3-series, while the new Audi A4 has turned out to be a sizable disappointment."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/new_car_reviews/article4963121.ece


"Though on Ibiza’s slippery roads over-eager low speed turn-in turned to unexpected understeer on fast bends driven hard."
Key Word: "unexpected"
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Audi-A4-3.2-FSI-Quattro-SE/232071/


"The A4 is a quality, luxury estate with handsome styling, a well-finished interior and practical cabin and load bay. But if driving enjoyment is important, the 3-series and C-Class estates do it better."
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Audi-A4-1.8-T-FSI-160-SE/232959/

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"If you want an Audi A4 2.0 TDI there’s no way I’m going to be able to talk you into buying a Ford Mondeo, even though it’s cheaper and much more engaging to drive."
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-A4-20-TDI-SE-CAR-review/


"Forget Quattro, it’s an Audi, so does it handle?

Let’s get the disappointment out of the way first: in a word, no. Jump out of the old A4 into this and you’ll be pleasantly surprised by its poise and alacrity. Problem is, if you’ve jumped out of a 3-series or a C-class (even a Mondeo) you’ll be gutted. There’s just no fun to be had punting this Audi hard, and that’s a real shame.

It feels leaden. You might think that's just impressively solid build quality until you enter a corner and find the A4 strangely reluctant to turn in. The ride is firm too, even in ‘comfort’ mode, yet still it tends to bobble and lurch over long-wave imperfections, so it never feels truly tied down, even if you accept a numbed spine and shift the Drive Select mode to ‘dynamic’. Yes, Quattro keeps it all secure through the twists, but the numb steering (too light at a canter, too heavy once you turn it in anger) thwarts any engaging interactivity you might otherwise have enjoyed."
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-A4-30-TDI-SE-Quattro-car-review/

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"Ok, engines sorted, but is there a bit of R8 magic in the handling?

Not quite. When Audi encounters a development challenge the default reaction appears to be to throw technology at it, rather than perhaps address the issue at its core. And when it comes to the chassis it seems there is still a lot to learn from direct rivals Mercedes and BMW."
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-A4-Avant-20-TDi-S-line/?content-block=2

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"There is no comparing the B8 A4 or 3 series to the C300 or is250 AWD"

Are you talking about the 3.2 or 2.0t? Because comparing the C300 4Matic and IS250AWD to the 3.2 is a pretty off base comparison, while it should be obvious that about 95% of people looking to purchase either the 2.0t, IS250AWD, or C300 4MAtic don't have "performance" high on their list if at all. The closest competitor the 3.2 has is the 328xi, but even that isn't a very accurate comparison.

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I'm glad you did the Audi driving event, it sounds like you had a blast. But you missed the point. The IS250 does suck on the track (yes I've driven it on a track, along with the IS350), however the 3.2 A4 competes with the IS350, big difference.
Similarly, the the 335 and C350 (not 300) are by no means "easily bested" by the nose heavy A4, even on a track. You can't deny the 50/50 weight distribution and excellent steering feel on the 3 series, and the potent 3.0tt will run circles around the A4 (yes I've driven them both).

I understand that your snide remarks make you feel more legitimate, but my point was that, "easily bested" by no means describes the relationship between the A4 and its competitors.

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very interesting information. Thanks.

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Heck, even a WRX (among quite a few other cars in the mid-$20k price range) will easily best an A4 without even trying (unless you're talking material quality). I really, really don't think an A4 is supposed to be a performance car. At least that was the impression I got from driving one. I can think of quite a few cars that would be cheaper and much, much more fun at the track - especially considering how much money you'd be dumping on the A4...

I don't think Quatro is spamming at all. He's probably dropped the most info of anybody here. Funny to see the responses from over-sensitive car owners.

If you feel you constantly have to defend your car purchase maybe you bought the wrong car...

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I don't think Quattroporte is spamming at all, in fact, I find everything Quattroporte is saying to be quite informative.

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