Could Chrysler's "Project D" be a Nissan?
Chrysler has been eerily silent about what, if anything, is in the works to replace the Avenger/Sebring twins, other than giving the replacement plan a cryptic "Project D" moniker. The pair are still relative newcomers to the scene, but the competition has delivered Chrysler's midsizers a sound drubbing both in the press and on the sales charts. The problem is that development costs money, something that's currently hard to come by. Thinking strategically, the unloved and outgunned Chryslers might seek solace by relocating to the Nissan Altima's platform. The Altima is one of the best - and best-selling - vehicles on the market. Put plainly, we would dive on an Altima's keys to avoid driving these Chryslers.
A relationship between Chrysler and Nissan already exists, with plans for Chrysler to port the Ram over for Nissan to rebadge as the next Titan, and a version of the Versa wearing Pentastar badging for the South American market is in the mix, so it's not like the two companies are strangers to each other. If Chrysler decides that it still wants its own platform, a partnership with another company to do the building might still be in the cards. Project D is about finding the most economic way to bring a competitive midsize sedan to market, including shrewd lash-ups.
According to Kicking Tires, Chrysler hopes to have a partner chosen by the end of the first half of 2009, with Nissan already being acknowledged as one of the possibilities.
[Source: Kicking Tires]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mike 1:03PM (1/10/2009)
It's gotta only be a matter of time before Nissan buys Chrysler. At this rate their cars/trucks will all be badge engineered versions of eachother.
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NickGDB 1:06PM (1/10/2009)
in b4 Initial D fans
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esteva03 1:53PM (1/10/2009)
dam it you bet me!!!
i think this could just be a marketing technique. it's just product placement. they already have a sedan racing in akina. imagine a nissan maxima against the subaru in "Initial D 5th Stage, Takumi takes the kids to school".
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rypt 2:29PM (1/10/2009)
There are no Nissan's in Project D :P
Jrejre 1:13PM (1/10/2009)
They need to get on it! Every minute the avenger and sebring sit on lots is another minute that Chrysler looks bad. They were able to build the challenger on the charger platform within 2 years so hopefully they can pull of a miracle and get something together soon.
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Sea Urchin 1:31PM (1/10/2009)
"According to Kicking Tires, Chrysler hopes to have a partner chosen by the end of the first half of 2009, with Nissan already being acknowledged as one of the possibilities."---------------So let's say they chose a partner in May and 2 years from then they will have a car that is competitive. Come on, i find it silly.
The problem with Detroit is that they are ALWAYS behind. Meaning Toyota, Honda are ahead of the curve because they bring right cars at the right time. Example, gas went thru the roof Honda had Fit, Civic, Toyota had Yaris, Corolla. When gas was cheap both rode SUV wave. On the other hand GM, Ford and Chrysler did not have small cars when gas was expensive, Cruze, Fiesta and Volt, Fusion Hybrid all will come here at the time when gas is dirt cheap, had these cars been available for sale 3 years ago these companies would have made a killing.
Also D3 are cutting SUV production just in time as gas price is falling.
Mike 2:19PM (1/10/2009)
Oh Sea Urchin,
Keep spouting nonsense. Honda and Toyota took just as big a hit as the domestics at the end of this year. They had so much forsight that Toyota built a huge facility to build big trucks then slashed production months after it opened, costing them untold amounts of money. They had the Fit and Yaris for their own markets and decided to transition them a bit earlier, no one had a magic ball and saw fuel prices going to $4.50 last summer otherwise Toyota wouldn't have upsized the Tundra the way they did, they wouldn't have built so many full size SUVs either.
Are the D3 still cutting production on trucks? Somewhat, but guess what, regardless of fuel prices, people are not buying vehilces, trucks or otherwise. They all have the capability to up production whenever they want as was evidenced when F-Series sales jumped a little, they added a shift to Dearborn Assembly.
What people like you continue to not understand is that the Japanese did not come to market with all things figured out and ready to dominate everything. They came to market with what they already knew, small cars and started working their way to trucks when the bottom dropped out. You can see by the products that will be out in the next year (Fiesta, Cruze, Focus, Hybrid Fusion) that Ford and GM did have some forsight into rising fuel prices, don't forget the product developement cycle is 3 years (oh but according to you, they can shift a vehicle from concept to dealer lot in months to react to unstable fuel prices).
Sea Urchin 2:42PM (1/10/2009)
Mike you say that Japanese have small cars for domestic market. But D3 have tanks for their domestic market. For last 20+ years D3 have been losing market share to Japanese and others, Japanese made just as much money as D3 on SUVs. It seems like when gas is high Japanese are making money on small cars, when gas is cheap Japanese are making money on SUVs.
Also you say that it takes 3 years for a new car to come, great but oil has been steadily going up since 2000, Sept 11 was in 2001, build up to Iraq war started next, next came war in Iraq, and Fiesta and Volt and Cruze will be here sometime in 2010, so D3 cycle is more like 8-7 years, when it takes you this long to adress the consumer demand you will die in no time. I also want to point out that Iran is building nukes, so once the recession is over something may go down that will cause oil to go sharply up.
Now you also bring that famous Toyota Tundra. Yes Toyota miscalculated, but did that kill the company? Because as far as i know GM and Chrysler said that they would file for CH 7 by the end of December if there was no bailout money.
If it wasn't for Bush right now those two would have been dead.....Toyota simply would have lost money on Tundra, that is a far cry from filing for CH 7.
Mark K. 2:42PM (1/10/2009)
Mike
"You can see by the products that will be out in the next year (Fiesta, Cruze, Focus, Hybrid Fusion) that Ford and GM did have some forsight into rising fuel prices, don't forget the product developement cycle is 3 years (oh but according to you, they can shift a vehicle from concept to dealer lot in months to react to unstable fuel prices)."
So, Fiesta, Focus, Astra, Corsa were never actually produced and were shown 5 years ago as prototype?
The fact is that
a) Detroit 3 were treating American consumer as a flying idiot and banking their money on it. Unfortuantely for them, American consumer showed to be smarter than they thought.
b) They didn't have timing of Toyota and Honda to bring the same exact vehicles they already sell in Europe here (to my eye Fit/Jazz and Yaris look *exactly* as those sold in Europe)
If it weren't for the a) and b) above, those four cars (Fiesta, Focus, Astra, Corsa) would have been offered here with at least 3 engine choices, diesel being one of them in *2008*. So, Ford and even more so GM are in the bed they made themselves - no excuses.
Not that Chrysler is any better - they sell Sebring and 300 both with diesel in Europe - but bring it here ASAP - no can do, right?
Mr.Oak 1:19PM (1/10/2009)
I don't know how the Avenger is mechanically, but aesthetically this car blows. If the mechanicals are worth anything, why not just re-skin the car. The irony of this car and it's sister ship the Sebring is, Chrysler spent no time on the design of this car, and spent too much time on the Sebring.
Avenger underdressed.
Sebring Overdressed.
Both wrong.
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PJ 1:31PM (1/11/2009)
Rest assured, it blows dynamically as well. The Avenger has just about the lamest combination of ride jitters, handling mediocrity, and booming road noise in the class. And even people who don't notice that will notice the butt-pincher seats (and I weigh 160) and crap visibility.
Kimura 1:33PM (1/10/2009)
The Avenger has been reviewed as being solid and a decent handler (firmer suspension tuning than the floaty Sebring). It just needs better powertrains, noise isolation and interior. I would think that would cost less. Still, the Altima would be a great new starting point, and it has better proportions.
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P.V. 1:46PM (1/10/2009)
I've tested all three and would ANY DAY get an Altima over a Sebring/Avenger.
I'm just wondering how willing Nissan is to lend a competitor a hand...
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Judy Zik 1:59PM (1/10/2009)
If it is just a rebadge that Nissan builds for them then forget it. If it is actually restyled and reskinned that could be cool. Nissan makes pretty good cars but they tend to be ugly IMHO so it wouldn't be that difficult for even Cerbyler to pull off a better looking Dodge version. The biggest problem would be the hit their margins would take if they had to give Nissan a cut for every one they sell. Cerbyler is already bleeding cash with every vehicle they sell. Adding another cost to the mix would only make that worse.
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Frank 8:38PM (1/10/2009)
Jim is right, Dakota, I'm sorry but I disagree with you. The original JA was a great platform and fully competitive with the Honda Accord when it came out in 1995. It was Motor Trends Car of the Year for '95. I had a '97 Stratus ES with the Mitsu 2.5 V6. Very nice car for what it was, mid size good value transportation with a sporty flair. Exactly what Toyondssan was offering at the time. My wifes grandmother was a devoted Accord owner. She bought a new one every five years. She drove my car and told me my Stratus drove as good as her '94/95 Accord (and she never abused her cars, so wear and tear was not a factor).
After Dumbler took over in 1998 they killed Chrysler's development process that turned out cars like the Stratus, Intrepid, Neon, and 300M and the result is what you have today. A car that is based off a Mitsubishi platform, with a base 4 pot co-developed with Hyundai and Mitsubishi, a transmission from Nissan, and cost cutting by the German Overlords. In other words this car is not any more a real Chrysler product than the Routan is a VW.
Jim 2:36PM (1/10/2009)
There's nothing inherently wrong with the *platform* that makes the Avenger/Sebring suck. The JS platform didn't dictate buzzy engines and dismally cheap interiors (and in the case of the Sebring, revolting styling.)
That said, it was the dumping of the JR platform which led to this mess in the first place. had it not been for Daimler's (failed) grand plans of forcing Chrysler and Mitusbishi's car platforms together, the Stratus/Sebring's replacements could have been so much better. The JA/JR platform was relatively new and modern, and it was just thrown away (actually sold to GAZ) for no good reason. The massive waste of resources Daimler spent on trying to unify on the Mitsu GS platform (which failed too) led to there being no time or money left to try to make these cars any good.
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dakota 4:35PM (1/10/2009)
The JA was introduced way back in the 90's, and could barely muster decent crash test scores even at that time(!), "modern" is a word that I wouldn't call that platform at this point. Not to mention the JS wasn't all that great either. The Stratus R/T was just totally laughed out of the park, Car and Driver quoted "A chassis from a different point in time", and eventually became another victim of the rental car fleets.
The Chrysler 2.4 (non GEMA) wasn't all that fantastic either, the same with the 2.0L, they made power but someone certainly forgot to unplug their ears. At least the 2.7 is relatively smooth, but a dog on power.
Those cars did not live up to the "mini-LH" expectations, maybe on styling but thats about it.
Jim 4:59PM (1/10/2009)
"The JA was introduced way back in the 90's,"
So what? the Camry and Accord are riding on platforms which date back to the early '80s. Yes, they've been re-engineered enough times to be nearly unrecognizable, but the point is that they've never just scrapped everything and started over.
Frank 8:47PM (1/10/2009)
Jim is right, Dakota, I'm sorry but I disagree with you. The original JA was a great platform and fully competitive with the Honda Accord when it came out in 1995. It was Motor Trends Car of the Year for '95. I had a '97 Stratus ES with the Mitsu 2.5 V6. Very nice car for what it was, mid size good value transportation with a sporty flair. Exactly what Toyondssan was offering at the time. My wifes grandmother was a devoted Accord owner. She bought a new one every five years. She drove my car and told me my Stratus drove as good as her '94/95 Accord (and she never abused her cars, so wear and tear was not a factor).
After Dumbler took over in 1998 they killed Chrysler's development process that turned out cars like the Stratus, Intrepid, Neon, and 300M and the result is what you have today. A car that is based off a Mitsubishi platform, with a base 4 pot co-developed with Hyundai and Mitsubishi, a transmission from Nissan, and cost cutting by the German Overlords. In other words this car is not any more a real Chrysler product than the Routan is a VW.
Other Man 2:42PM (1/10/2009)
Seems like a worthy trade, since both get the platform of the other's excellent selling product.
The problem would be differentiating them. The Chrysler tends more towards luxury while the Dodge tends more towards sport (all in theory), but so does the Altima.
Chrysler may have to try and balance that out by going to one sedan. And what about the Phoenix V-6s?
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