Detroit 3 win Ben Stein's money support
Ben Stein is a pretty smart guy, and impressing him usually involves showing him up on Comedy Central or showing up to your high school economics class on time. Detroit's automakers may have done neither, but Stein's in their corner just the same.In the actor/commentator's opinion, the Big 3 are part of the fabric of America, employing hard-working Americans and building cars which are, in his view, second to none. He even credits their products which "have saved [his] life many times on the freeway." Bailing out Detroit is an imperative for Stein, making the case on emotional as well as logical grounds. But the steadfast Republican who cut his teeth working in the Nixon and Ford administrations can't understand how the government of the United States can find the money to bail out a mismanaged Wall Street and finance foreign intervention – the kind he supported when it was Nixon's call – while dragging its feet on helping the Big Three "slim down, shape up, and keep making great cars and trucks". Follow the link to read his take.
[Source: Yahoo! Finance]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
pmiddle5 3:17PM (1/04/2009)
I agree with all of those points and have felt very similar them the whole time. Its pathetic how much money we just throw into other industries then when it comes to our auto industry we are extremely critical and cheap.
I still would like to see a better business plan and definitely agree loans not grants for the big 3, but letting them die this slow death? The banks seemed to say "Hey we're in trouble!" and the US government came running with blank checks. China is investing extremely heavily in its auto industry currently, at a rate that makes our money pathetic.
Would also like to mention he forgot to mention the airline bailouts 5-6 years ago.
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firstplace 3:17PM (1/04/2009)
A slippery slope. Where do the bailouts stop? Is it fair to the industry's who didnt get bailout cash? If we subsidize everyone ... isnt that communism? If you as a person are about to go bankrupt due to massive miss spending will the government bail you out personally? I just dont see why some people must work harder and obtain no reward while others do a bad job and are supported by the first set of people...
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pmiddle5 3:21PM (1/04/2009)
communism is an economy in which the production of goods are literally controlled by the state. They would say build "X" cars this year whether natural supply/demand asks for it or not.
That is slightly closer to socialism then anything but still semi free market. Would it be better to have the US Government just watch its economy fail and say "f it?"
firstplace 3:26PM (1/04/2009)
bailouts like unions are not supposed to back the will of the market. If a company does poorly others take its place, you dont prop up the week company with everyone else s money... ahh socialism was the word I was looking for... They may tank anyway... and there are others to fill there place with plants right here in the USA..
The Luigiian 3:46PM (1/04/2009)
I've never gotten this "will of the market" BS. The implication is that GM and Chrysler are no longer liked by the majority of Americans, yet GM is still the second biggest automaker on Earth and it still sells millions of cars and trucks every year. The reason it's approaching bankruptcy isn't the market, it's the company's mismanagement and inability to restructure itself to cope with smaller and smaller slabs of the auto market. That isn't the will of the market either, it's simple economics. As more competitors come out selling wares, the remaining companies must shrink to accomodate them.
IMHO, the best solution is to just help Detroit shrink, and perhaps take precautions to make sure the remaining jobs stay in the U.S.
firstplace 4:07PM (1/04/2009)
So they mismanaged and ran them self into the ground and want everyone else to bail them out? Unlike the rest of society the market is about survival of the fittest, thats why capitalism has made us the richest country on earth. It dosent matter the cause, they mismanaged, they are to blame, it is no longer a fit company...the company would be bought up and restructured into one that can compete. The union would no longer exist (like a cancer they would die of there own greed) but the workers would still be skilled and could get jobs once the restructuring takes place. Why should I or anyone else not involved pay for there failure?
pmiddle5 4:24PM (1/04/2009)
I very much so agree in the "they really messed up big time" thing. I also believe they need (obviously!!!) a very large management restructure, supply restructure, a completely new business plan essentially.
The thing is, if we were to let them completely fail, it would badly damage the US economy in ways beyond the big 3. It would be completely devastating and be the worst thing to happen to the USA equaling the Wall Street Crash of 1929.
This is a way worse thing then giving out low interest loans to some companies which have almost failed. Hell, maybe they will FINALLY get the wake up call and start to pay attention..
Just think all the factory workers, all the cars salesmen (even though they are jerks), auto techs, designers, engineers, lawyers, porters, truck drivers, janitors, security guards, accountants, staticians, managers, marketing personnel, etc...
Almost every job you can think of is employed in the auto industry in somewhat, and all of these people will lose jobs and have a heck of a time finding a new one when everyone is out hunting for jobs.
Its just a no win situation!
Sea Urchin 5:47PM (1/04/2009)
Luigian GM does sell millions of units. But so would i if i sold something for $10 but spent $20 making it in the first place.
This is the D3 Problem, margins are minuscule, so to make money they need volume. Once the volume went out they started making very little, but volume went down on vehicles that make money and volume went up on vehicles that lose money (small cars)
dragon76 12:40AM (1/05/2009)
I say .. the government should help out the Big 3 and here is why ... I live in a small town in South Western Pa. and many years ago there was a Volkswagen plant in the area and it employed a good bit of people from my hometown including my uncle ... My uncle made good money there and was a happy person (so was his friends that worked with him) .... Then the factory closed ... that put stress on him and many others to find jobs in an area where there wasn't many jobs to begin with let alone ones that payed that good ... Flash Forward to the 2000's That factory is still there and it was home to a leading television manufacturer ... 20 or so years passed between the factory closing the re - opening ... I worked there for a few years ... They are now closing again .... So you intelligent people are asking whats his point ....
Well the point is ... if the government lets these companies fail ... there is gonna be a spike in unemployment rates that are gonna adversely not just the local economy in that area but all over America. I remember a few years ago there was a comment that there are more jobs available ... yeah them "jobs" are minimum wage ... these people that work in the factories that are goin to be closed would have to take on two or three jobs a piece and still not make as much money as they would be if the government bailed out the big 3 (but make them do a major reorganization ... and some major stipulations)
so lets say that one factory employees about 2500 people and one day the doors close ... that means 2500 are out in the market for a new job .... like the one guy commented let the factories reopen (big 3 fail .... then a new business comes in) .... how long does that guy think it will be in between 5, 10, or more years ... those employed cant hold out that long.
Yaroukh 4:25AM (1/05/2009)
@pmiddle5: actualy what you described as communism is socialism (government says what and how much will be produced), we had that in our country
communism, which I'm not sure any country actually achieved, means there are no money at all in the society, everyone takes just what he really needs
the sole fact that the one and only (real) party in a country has "communism" in its name doesn't mean the economy achieved what is described as communism
John D 3:22PM (1/04/2009)
Sorry, but Ben Stein is not, and never has been, a "smart guy." His recent movie "Expelled" is most certainly proof enough of that. He is dunce, or a fraud artist at best.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008/12/win_ben_steins_mind.html
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know
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Andy 3:24PM (1/04/2009)
Bingo. You just beat me to it. Not the brightest bulb.
BoxerFanatic 3:31PM (1/04/2009)
Funny.
I haven't seen "expelled", but I have seen interviews with Stein, and he is usually fairly on the ball.
I can't say that his sentimentality and emotional attachment to the Big 3 justifying absolutely immoral use of taxation revenues is something I agree with. I see his point, I just don't think anything justifies taking some people's money away for other people to use at the muzzle of a LEO's gun, if you refuse to pay those confiscatory taxes.
But what is REALLY funny, is that "Expelled" was reportedly about the nearly-complete quelling and stone-walling of debate about intelligent design in academics. Academics is supposed to be about debate and consideration.
And then, you, John D, do the same thing to try and quash discussion and conversation, by trying to undermine the credentials of the messenger. I can completely see why you mention "Expelled", the movie is about people like YOU!
The Doctor 3:42PM (1/04/2009)
Academia is about debate? Quite right!
"Okay kids, we've just finished double chemistry but because there's a debate, it's time for the alchemy period"
John D 4:11PM (1/04/2009)
Wow you are an idiot, BoxerFanatic. Science involves using inductive reasoning to build a hypothesis from observed phenomenon, and then testing the hypothesis deductively in a system called the scientific method. If the hypothesis holds up over time it is garnered a theory. Otherwise it is considered disproved and is no longer scientifically relevant. "Intelligent Design" has no place in science because it relies on "faith" instead of the scientific method as its proof. The definition of faith is belief without logical cause or reason, therefore it has no place in academia.
Congratulation BoxerFanatic! You've won Ben Stein's dunce hat!
Torrent 5:06PM (1/04/2009)
Wow, two words and everyone blows up. Look, he knows what's going on with the Big 3, and even if it's is from a guy you say is 'not smart', anybody's support for the health of the country is good enough.
Conundrum 5:38PM (1/04/2009)
@ John D...
Darwin himself found arguments against his own theory. Irregularities in the geologic record for one. Another is evidence of micro-evolution but not macro-evolution. Finches on an island having different sized beaks which allow them to to eat food sources readily avaliable on the island is MUCH different than saying that those finches were once Dinosaurs which were once a pool of primordial soup that was struck by lightning and "poof" life as we know it today.
Natural selection...PROVEN.
Micro-evolution...PROVEN.
Gravity...PROVEN
Man from soup??? NOT PROVEN and therefore open to debate and continued hypothesising. Anyone who argues otherwise is NOT interested in TRUE science.
Jimothy 10:03AM (2/06/2009)
Conundrum: For real? You're actually suggesting that academics should spend time debating whether man came from soup, and that anyone who thinks it not worth of investigation is not a true scientist? Surely you jest.
John 8:44PM (1/04/2009)
Stein is no bigger dunce than someone who believes humans somehow magically evolved from a single cell amoeba or crawled out of slime pits a billion years ago.
Conundrum 8:56PM (1/04/2009)
@Jimothy...
For evolution to be scientific fact, ALL life must have eminated from some type of "primordial soup" I have problems with the lack of FACTS linking man back to soup. Evolutionists cannot produce FACTS to back thier hypothesis, yet they belittle ALL who would like to debate other options. I see evolution as little more than a decent hypothesis with many phenomenal and almost unbelievable assumptions needed to make it work (you know, almost like intelligent design).
Ben Stein's movie "Expelled" is not a statement that intelligent design IS the answer, but rather that so called scientists who constantly hypothesize about life, REFUSE to allow debate that THEY do not deem appropriate. Evolutionists like Dawkins belittle anyone who may have faith that other options exist. However when Ben Stein questions him about the origins of life, he has no answers and says that intelligent design IS an option...WHAT??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxsQrBa0ECE
Evolutionists contradict themselves on a regular basis but we are not allowed to have any sort of debate? After all we all knew the earth was Flat and the sun revolves around the Earth. Now I jest!