Filed under: Etc., Government/Legal, Green
Seattle's plow crews not trying to clear snow from roads by design
by Jonathon Ramsey on Dec 27th 2008 at 5:01PM 
Not long ago, Washington state's Department of Ecology was making noises about not letting people wash their cars at home because "what goes on the street goes into the creek." Now the state is on the opposing side of Seattle's efforts not to let harmful chemicals wash into the freshwater streams feeding into Puget Sound.Seattle is not using salt to clear the roads because it doesn't want the salt flowing into waterways. As well, the city's snow plows have rubber-edge blades that can clear snow, but can't get the ice off the road. Seattle's DOT cheif says the city is trying to "create a hard-packed surface" of snow. It will then lay sand down over the hardpack in order to offer enough traction to cars, and employ a soy-based de-icer only good for temps below 32 degrees.
The hitch: only 4-wheel-drive and front-wheel-drive cars with chains have any traction. That means that even the police can't drive on many roads. If the police make a call to a location on a hill, they park at the bottom and walk up the hill. As well, the police are having to respond to literally hundreds of collisions and disabled vehicles.
The state DOT has taken a much different tack: it is using sand, salt, metal-edged plows, and chemical de-icer in its battle with the elements. Seattle is now experimenting with a "silver bullet" concoction that is saltwater from a cheese factory, calcium chloride, and de-sugared molasses.
[Source: Seattle Times]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Edsel 5:16PM (12/27/2008)
I'll wager that a bunch of Seattle politicians will be washed into Puget Sound in the next election cycle.
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Miguel 12:43AM (12/28/2008)
You clearly know nothing about Seattle politics. We Washingtonians love to reelect incumbent stupidity. I think it's in the state constitution or something.
Miguel 9:17PM (12/27/2008)
You clearly know nothing about Seattle politics...
biggins 10:19PM (12/27/2008)
Seattle politicians suck. I've lived in King County for almost 20 years, and the political decision made in the city are an absolute joke. Not only are they a bunch of sissies, they're led by the most which-like, coward of a governor Chris Gregiore.
If they were to be washed away, I would party in celebration for weeks on end.
JD 9:30AM (12/29/2008)
Look, so they got caught with their pants down in the biggest storm I've ever seen in my 21 years of living in the Puget Sound area. I'm inclined to give them a break- this storm, and subsequent accumulation, has never happened like this, and is more suited to a midwest state than the northwest. It's been a major inconvenience, trust me, but this isn't exactly the end of the world here.
Pat 5:21PM (12/27/2008)
Gimme a f'n break!
In other news, 50 fish saved!
My comment may be reactionary but there's a limit as to how far we should go to save the planet. Great idea but why not work out the kinks first.
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rndmnme 8:42PM (12/27/2008)
Yes, 50 fish where saved and probably half a dozen people lost their life cause of road conditions and cops not being able to get there in time.
50 > 6, right?
R-Yo 5:23PM (12/27/2008)
Hahahahahahahaha, that was funny
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ropeburn 5:27PM (12/27/2008)
damn hippies! I'm a vegitarian and try to do my part for the environment
but the city needs to get the roads safe, if the cops can't get around
then you really have to go back to the drawing board.
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Tourian 6:21PM (12/27/2008)
Shouldn't the cops at least keep a few 4x4's around for adverse conditions? I'm not saying I agree with what is going on here, but I would think the Police in northern locales would have a couple of Tahoes, Expeditions, or hell maybe an old K5 Blazer sitting around when the snow comes in and makes all the 'Vics useless. Maybe even one FWD Impala with chains would do it.
Miguel 9:00PM (12/27/2008)
@Tourian
They do. But it's not like the police get calls to go "up hill" every once in a while--it's pretty much all hills! What a joke. Ah, how I love my city...
Ken 5:28PM (12/27/2008)
I can attest that the same thing is going on in Portland Oregon. Nothing was being plowed here for days! I headed south from Portland this past Tuesday and the freeway (I-5) was nothing but slush that had frozen with tire tracks and grooves everywhere. Deep ruts in this mess being 8 to 10 inches deep with ice of course at the bottom. Chains had turned the road into a washboard surface.. Driving down the road felt like landing on a bombed runway.
Lifted trucks with no chains were attempting to change lanes, spun out and collided into others. I saw several semis with chains spinning out on completely flat surfaces. There was hardly any gravel and no sand. No de-icer and of course, no salt. In fact, I didn't see any sort of utility truck, police car or plow for nearly 40 miles.
Being from New England originally, I drove at a sane 20 mph in the right lane and these idiots were doing FIFTY or more down the road and had the moxie to honk at me.
Well I made it safely to my destination and fortunately my car didn't rattle after the jarring i went through.
ODOT and whatever Portland authorities in charge of the debacle should be charged with something serious..
What a complete mess. Being a history geek, all I could think of was the German Army on its way to Moscow in the winter..
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davesss 5:39PM (12/27/2008)
pussies ;-)
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timmer 5:43PM (12/27/2008)
Tips get up hills in winter conditions:
Get as much speed as possible before the bottom of the hill and keep foot on accelerator through the entire climb.
or put into 4wd.
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Miguel 9:05PM (12/27/2008)
Better tips to get up hills in winter conditions:
approach hill at an even speed, ensuring that your RPM's are not too high (well below 4,000 preferably), as this indicates a high wheel acceleration that the body of the car has not yet caught up to--this is how you lose traction (see: hydroplaning). Refrain from braking too hard, lest the wheel momentum falls below vehicle momentum, resulting in a spinout. When going up hill, apply steady, even pressure to the accelerator and drop into a lower gear to provide maximum torque. If car has optional 4WD, turn it on; if available, use the "low" setting.
Max 5:46PM (12/27/2008)
Lets see if the FAA lets the airports use an environmentally friendly de-icer on aircraft.
Sorry folks, de-icing isn't an eco-friendly process. I can't believe the local gov't is putting the minor ecological risk above the MAJOR risk of its citizens.
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MikeW 7:25PM (12/27/2008)
The modern 'environmental' movement is really anti-humanism in disguise.
rodan32 8:51PM (12/27/2008)
What risk? Salt in the salty Puget Sound? I'm sure the risk is as close to zero as most minds could fathom.
kballs 9:11PM (12/27/2008)
Actually they typically use propylene glycol to deice planes lately and it isn't very toxic (compared to ethylene glycol, petroleum distillates, etc.) though you still can't eat it/breathe it... but deicing planes is different than roads: they can't use salt on planes (so it is expensive, salt is cheap). It is also nowhere near as much chemical as is needed for thousands of miles of roads and side streets so the impact is much smaller... they could even conceivably collect the runoff from the terminal area and filter out the chemicals. Roads runoff into ditches and storm drains, and eventually into streams and rivers from there, little filtering is practical, so the best strategy is to keep the chemicals out in the first place.
Now if Seattle had weather like NY, Boston, Connecticut, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc. they would have 10x more plows and deicer and the worry about salt runoff in freshwater streams would probably go out the window, but we hardly ever get storms like this. If you don't agree with it, shut up and prepare to pay more taxes, or prepare to spend more money on winter tires and AWD vehicles.
Frank Hoffman 5:48PM (12/27/2008)
I hate living in a state full of hippies.
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