I was listening to the press conference earlier on WJR (Detroit radio). They said "the jobs bank is gone". Then in almost the same breath they said "the union has agreed to look at changes for "old contracts" which apparently referred to current contracts.

The point is, don't read too much into language of the reporting. The facts have hardly surfaced yet. I heard Gettlefinger say that the jobs bank is gone. We'll have to wait to see what other concessions they're going to be making.

↓↑report

yeah, why do we have these short 40 hour work weeks and two days off. Why do we have to pay these workers enough to support families. let's there children fend for themselves.

It's the workers fault anyway. They designed the cars. They choose suv's over smaller cars. I think the unions even negotiated the contracts with other union members.

I'm so glad I can come onto sites like this an bash the workers. I mean hey if you guys don't make 30 dollars an hour, why should anyone else.

We should all live in basement apartments, we should all be chubby little zeroes. We should a ll be bitter.

Down with the American worker! Down with unions! Once unions are gone everything will be fine.

It doesn't matter that none of you have ever built anything. Bring your fictitious stories about fat greedy unions. Why have facts when you can just babble away?

Commence babbling.

↓↑report

@ Dave:
Settle down friend. I'll agree with you that Unions were most certainly the reason we enjoy many of the benefits that we now hold dear. However, their time, usefulness and purpose have come to an end.

Todays workers want to be organized? Great, i'm all for it. Start an association. Just like every other interest group out there. Don't like how business is treating you? Have your association take the issue to the capitol or quit.

No more strong arm tactics, no more picket lines, no more strikes.

↓↑report

Dave: There was a time and a place for unions. That time has long since passed in the US.

Any doctor can empty a trash can. No janitor can perform open heart surgery. Specialization of trade is the prerequisite for higher wages. Any high school dropout can stand on a modern assembly line for any manufacturer.

The union bosses don't care about the workers one bit, and you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. The union bosses will cut off the workers nose to spite their face if it will make the bosses a buck.

So, while all the white collar, college educated, workers are getting kicked to the door, the non-specialized workers are getting their contractual raises, achieved at what constitutes the barrel of a gun to the employers head ('sign on the dotted line or we'll shut you down at a cost of billions a day')

To argue the health of the company is better served by union representation is a fallacy.

↓↑report

Well, duh. Skilled Trades has always been the linchpin for the survival of any union.

And say what you want about a fancy college degree; I've seen engineers from Kettering scratch their heads until an old electrician comes by and figures out how to fix the robot.

↓↑report

"Well, duh. Skilled Trades has always been the linchpin for the survival of any union."

And competition the antithesis. Which is more likely to create a better product, better company, and better workforce?

I see that you are UAW based on your other postings, so I value your open opinion or any statements on how the UAW helps to create a better company, or a company better suited to compete in today's economy.

↓↑report

Yes the Unions are out of control. But let's get some facts straight.

The Auto Plants around here wont hire you unless you have a minimum a High School Diploma. You are expected to have a certain level of literacy. They are looking for more because they want people who they can potentially train for specialized trades later on. The work is long, boring and often physically demanding and like most factory jobs a large percentage of workers suffer injury on the job. If they didn't pay well people wouldn't do these jobs. My Dad died in July this year at the age of 65. They attributed his cancer to the Chemicals he was exposed to supervising the paint shop in a truck plant for most of his life. He also lost his hearing and had to have his knees replaced because of the stress climbing up and down the platforms all those years put on him. You think that is an easy job go try it for a week.

That said as a supervisor he told a lot of stories about how things were with the union. It was almost impossible to fire someone no matter how horrible they were and have them stay fired. That needs to change. The jobs bank needs to go to. Workers and management need to be on the same side instead of each fighting to see how they can screw the other.

↓↑report

Judy, IMO, competition and labor market forces in an environment free from unnecessary restrictions (similar to price/cost fixing) will pay fairly. If not, they will be unable to retain employees; and if so, they will receive more apps than they have positions for. The market finds that equilibrium, but only without undue, unnatural forces.

↓↑report

@ elprogramer who said "I've seen engineers from Kettering scratch their heads until an old electrician comes by and figures out how to fix the robot."

That reminds me of when I was a fresh EE and there were about 4 electricians messing around with a power converter that they couldn't get to work. I grounded the main circuit board for them and it started working. I especially enjoyed the dumb looks on their faces.

The old electrician may be familiar with the equipment and have experience in how to maintain it, but an engineer understands how stuff works.

↓↑report

Hate their employer? The largest group of investors and purchasers of General Motors stock/vehicles are the loyal labor force. If anything, management hates us. I would know, being labor and having many family members on both sides of the negotiating table.

Your statement is biased and ignornant; every worker I know has done their fair share to ensure the survivability of the corporation; we're all proud of our work. But apparently that's not good enough. I suppose I should work for free and put in sixteen-hour days.

Gettlefinger (and by proxy the United Auto Workers under his leadership) have been nothing but conciliatory and offered concession after concession. You want to blame us for old and antiquated programs from an era when the company could afford it? Fine.

Just don't come here talking out of you ass and tell me how I do my job or how I work with my employer.

↓↑report

You're right, elprogrammer. The UAW has made all kinds of concessions in the past few years that nobody ever wants to talk about. I keep talking about that here on autoblog just about every day. The rest of the world doesn't seem to get the same news as Detroit gets. But the fact remains that it isn't enough and there are going to be more concessions. I just hope they do the best they can to not throw retirees out into the streets and minimize the impact on other workers because our entire economy here in Michigan is dependent on these wages for business and the tax base.

↓↑report

elprogrammer:

I said I didn't think you hated your employer:

"UAW employees may not hate their employers, but Gettelfinger's speaking on their behalf suggests a strong disconnect between employer and employee." --what I said in my first comment.

My first statement was directed at bad companies in general.

But you just proved my point that workers and employers are fighting against each other at GM. "If anything, management hates us." GM management has seen it fit to treat their employees like cattle, and thus have engendered hate amongst them. Unions are a byproduct of this hate.

It seems to me that unions are often a symptom of companies that don't care about their employees and treat them like assets rather than human beings.

Wagoner and GM management in general fight against unions. Thus, they should be taken out of the equation entirely. Unions would be unnecessary in a strong company that cared about its employees, thus if GM is repaired it should have no need for unions. If neither of these qualifications can be met then I question whether GM deserves its bailout.

And yes, I do realize that that would mean serious problems for the workers. Many would lose their jobs. Detroit would suffer immensely. It would be painful for everybody, and America in general. But GM's woes have been going on for a long time. They continue to shutter plants and lay off workers, often shipping their jobs to Mexico. Therefore, we have two choices: Give money to these companies to outsource more jobs; let the market decide.

Although I don't want to see jobs lost, my inclination is to let the market sort this one out. If Americans want GM to stay alive, they'll vote with their wallets.

↓↑report

Because the only reason Toyota, Honda, etc. pay what they do is to keep the union out. No union, no need to keep wages at levels high enough to keep workers happy enough to prevent unionization.

↓↑report

Really? Then why does the parking lot at River Rouge say "FORD VEHICLES ONLY"? Why is the workforce in Flint zealously proud of Chevrolet/Buick (depending on which plant they work at)?

The reason we wear UAW clothes is because the UAW can't print company logos. Official work wear proudly displays both the General Motors and the UAW insignia.

↓↑report

All unions workers in any trade display their local. I've toured Janesville (where my Suburban was made!) and the worker's wore both UAW and GM logos.

↓↑report