It is definitely in tax payer interest that the bailout be passed in support of GM, Chrysler and Ford.

Because if it doesn't, we lose 2.5 million jobs right away and the Japanese makers will start to lose profits and be stressed even more due to the credit crunch.

and a Black Hole will form and devour humanity.

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A bit off subject... but does anyone else think Paulson looks like a body double for Col. Klink from the old 60's TV show Hogan's Heros???

Maybe its the oversized image?? :) :)

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@Taylor: A lot of people have been talking about the 2.5 to 3 million job loss figure, because that's what a lot of media outlets, and Autoblog, have mentioned. It's a big, scary number if true, but please consider the fact this statistic comes from the Center for Automotive Research, which has very close ties to the auto industry in general, and the Big 3 in particular. And lobbyists are seldom known for accurate and unbiased information, particularly when billions and billions of dollars are at stake. To put it bluntly, these job loss numbers were vastly exaggerated out of proportion.

Washington Post: "The Center for Automotive Research said this morning that if ... GM, Ford and Chrysler ... fail, it will mean the loss of 3 million jobs across the entire auto sector in the first year of collapse. Should Detroit production drop by 50 percent ... some 2.5 million jobs would be lost, the report says."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2008/11/report_3m_jobs_lost_with_autom.html

Bloomberg: "A GM failure that stops production would cost 2.5 million jobs in the U.S. in the first year, according to the Ann Arbor, Michigan-based Center for Automotive Research."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=azOHgjt14vZ8&refer=home

The Ohio State University: "Dr. Giorgio Rizzoni, Director, Center for Automotive Research... His research has been funded by, among others, General Motors, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Delphi , Visteon, Dana, ArvinMeritor, Fiat, Honda, Lamborghini..."
http://car.osu.edu/drupal/index.php?q=node/46

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Big Rocket,


You seem to have this research centre at heart. The 3 millions jobs are very easy to count. Go read autoextremist, you'll get a flavor.

Count the manufacturers
Count the dealers
Count the suppliers
Advertising agencies
TV Station advertising executives
Tire manufacturers
And on and on and on..

Do your own study if you don't believe it and we'll see. Much easier to verify than th famous reliability study of you know who (CR) . Nobody has ever seen their results or data.

There you go.

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@stratojet: One auto industry lobbyist isn't enough, and now you want to introduce a second auto industry lobbyist?

Autoextremist: "After a 22-year career in automotive advertising and marketing, Peter M. De Lorenzo founded Autoextremist.com ..."
http://www.autoextremist.com/

Businessweek: "... DeLorenzo discloses in broad terms that he consults with auto makers from time to time ..."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_30/b3944112.htm

Businessweek: "Peter DeLorenzo ... Worked in the advertising business, on accounts for Nissan, Dodge, and Chevy, for two decades ... He's getting by on consulting fees; often he's hired after a particularly astute rant."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_30/b3944114.htm

Actually, I have done my study already, which tells me lobbyists are hardly known for accurate and unbiased information, especially when billions and billions of dollars are at stake. In reality, they have been known to fabricate numbers from time to time, if it would help them get a bigger slice out of my paycheck, your paycheck, and everyone else's paycheck for government funding.

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"Every GM/Ford/DC executive should be fired for putting out crappy products threatening the jobs of 2.5 million people."

Those execs will get their golden parachutes whether the companies fail or not so they'd probably prefer to be fired at his point too.

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It will easily equal 3 million jobs that will be affected. Count the employees of the automakers, hundreds of suppliers (1st, 2nd, 3rd tier), businesses providing other services like prototyping, CAD work, IT and CAE work, businesses located in the Metro Detroit area, etc. I do IT support for a flower shop, which also specializes in special events. And they are hurting greatly! They used to organize special events for the automotive companies, like the North American International Auto Show, etc., and now, no one is ordering anything!

So what about the other small businesses that provide services to the automakers directly or to their employees?

Significantly more people than the always quoted 3 million will be affected. And more likely than not, those who think they are as far away from the auto industry as possible will probably be affected.

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@Sasha: There is a significant difference between 3 million people losing their jobs outright (which is what was claimed by the lobbyists), and 3 million people being affected (but still keeping their jobs). And when these lobbyists keeping citing the 3 million job loss figure attributed to a firm with close financial ties to the Big 3, a certain phrase comes to mind: conflict of interest.

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GM needs to keep Chevy, Cadillac and GM? Uh...duh?

Unless you meant to GMC. I say keep Chevy, Caddy and Saturn, but that's just my insignificant .02.

This is going to sound completely awful of me, but I personally don't think the government should help (I said help not bailout) GM until immediately after they file for bankruptcy. The cars and factories aren't going anywhere, but if the speculated number of people are going to lose their jobs one way or the other, shouldn't Detroit start in "better shape" to be as productive as possible with several billion dollars then handing it to them as their ship is burning just to watch all those money bags burst into flames too?

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I think they should keep Chevrolet and Cadillac as-is. Use the GMC brand on medium- and heavy-duty trucks. Kill off Pontiac and Saturn. Kill off Buick in the U.S. but not China since that brand has plenty of equity there. Chevrolets can be rebadged as Opel/Vauxhall for Europe, Daewoo and Buick for Asia, and Holden for Australia. And to go off on a limb a bit, maybe combine Saab and Hummer as a mid-to-high-end niche brand.

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Amen brother! Thats what I'm sayin! Where are all the smart people? How is 50 billion going to help the car companies make money?

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