Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy
QUALITY PROBLEMS WITH QUALITY RATINGS
Pity the poor car buyer who wants to be a smart consumer and reads all the quality studies before going to the showroom. How do you know what to believe?
For example, Consumer Reports' Reliability Survey gives props to the Scion xD. But Strategic Vision's Total Quality Award gives props to the Scion xB. And J.D. Power puts Scion near the bottom of the list of its Vehicle Dependability Survey. Who do you believe?
The problem is that these studies all measure different aspects of quality. Unfortunately, the mass media doesn't have time to delve into these distinctions and so all we get is their sound-bite analysis. Their favorite is that the Detroit Three are lagging behind the "foreign automakers" in quality.
John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit" and daily web video "Autoline Daily". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers.
Actually, in terms of dependability, Mercury and Cadillac rank #2 and #3 behind #1 Lexus. Lincoln is just a fraction behind BMW and ahead of Honda. Ford is tied with Infiniti, and they're both ahead of the industry average. And yet, of the 10 worst brands in the J.D. Power survey, 8 of them are import brands. But you never hear about that.
Besides, calling them the "worst" brands is all relative. The bottom of the list today would have been close to the top of the list a decade ago. It's like saying Los Angeles has the worst pollution in the country even though LA's air is now cleaner than it's been in half a century.
Part of the reason we don't know is that J.D. Power & Associates does not show its results in a consistent fashion from year to year, making it difficult to compare results over time. Moreover, unless you have complete access to the full study you have no idea of the kind of defects that are being reported (they certainly do not make the full report available to journalists!). If one brand has a high preponderance of engines blowing up, and another has a rattle in the ashtray, all we see is that both brands has defects. J.D. Power does weight the severity of defects, but we never see what goes into that weighting.
Strategic Visions doesn't measure defects. It interviews consumers and translates their responses into groups of "feelings" that it uses to rank the quality of cars. I have no question this approach is worth while, but I'm also sure members of the media would laugh out loud if they knew they were reporting on "feelings."
And I can't comprehend why anyone would subscribe to the magazine, then go out and buy a car that CR rates as undependable. Yet every year, many CR subscribers dutifully report the new car they just bought is as unreliable as CR warned them it would be. Something doesn't add up here. But it doesn't matter since CR's ratings are so incredibly influential that perception becomes reality in what the media reports.
Don't get me wrong. I think all these quality ratings are extremely valuable. I pore over them in great detail when they're released. It's very valuable to measure the quality of vehicles and make that information available to the industry and the public. But to be a smart consumer, you better make sure you understand what's being measured and put it in its proper context.
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Pity the poor car buyer who wants to be a smart consumer and reads all the quality studies before going to the showroom. How do you know what to believe?For example, Consumer Reports' Reliability Survey gives props to the Scion xD. But Strategic Vision's Total Quality Award gives props to the Scion xB. And J.D. Power puts Scion near the bottom of the list of its Vehicle Dependability Survey. Who do you believe?
The problem is that these studies all measure different aspects of quality. Unfortunately, the mass media doesn't have time to delve into these distinctions and so all we get is their sound-bite analysis. Their favorite is that the Detroit Three are lagging behind the "foreign automakers" in quality.
John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit" and daily web video "Autoline Daily". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers.
Actually, in terms of dependability, Mercury and Cadillac rank #2 and #3 behind #1 Lexus. Lincoln is just a fraction behind BMW and ahead of Honda. Ford is tied with Infiniti, and they're both ahead of the industry average. And yet, of the 10 worst brands in the J.D. Power survey, 8 of them are import brands. But you never hear about that.
Besides, calling them the "worst" brands is all relative. The bottom of the list today would have been close to the top of the list a decade ago. It's like saying Los Angeles has the worst pollution in the country even though LA's air is now cleaner than it's been in half a century.
Of the 10 worst brands in the J.D. Power survey, 8 of them are import brands.
Even if you just use one source to measure quality it can be hard to figure out if you're not familiar with the methodology being used. For example, J.D. Power ranks Acura in its 5th spot with 160 defects, while Buick is in 6th spot with 163 defects. Keep in mind that this is the number of defects per 100 vehicles, so the actual difference between any one car from these brands is only 0.03 defect. Should Buick knock its brains out to try and close that gap? Or is there really any gap at all? Couldn't this just be "noise" in the survey? Besides, are Buick's older buyers simply more forgiving than Acura's younger ones? We don't know.Part of the reason we don't know is that J.D. Power & Associates does not show its results in a consistent fashion from year to year, making it difficult to compare results over time. Moreover, unless you have complete access to the full study you have no idea of the kind of defects that are being reported (they certainly do not make the full report available to journalists!). If one brand has a high preponderance of engines blowing up, and another has a rattle in the ashtray, all we see is that both brands has defects. J.D. Power does weight the severity of defects, but we never see what goes into that weighting.
Strategic Visions doesn't measure defects. It interviews consumers and translates their responses into groups of "feelings" that it uses to rank the quality of cars. I have no question this approach is worth while, but I'm also sure members of the media would laugh out loud if they knew they were reporting on "feelings."
Many CR subscribers dutifully report the new car they just bought is as unreliable as CR warned them it would be.
Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers for its quality ratings, so we're only getting an accurate read of what its readers think. I'm not convinced this is a statistically accurate sample of the total car-buying public.And I can't comprehend why anyone would subscribe to the magazine, then go out and buy a car that CR rates as undependable. Yet every year, many CR subscribers dutifully report the new car they just bought is as unreliable as CR warned them it would be. Something doesn't add up here. But it doesn't matter since CR's ratings are so incredibly influential that perception becomes reality in what the media reports.
Don't get me wrong. I think all these quality ratings are extremely valuable. I pore over them in great detail when they're released. It's very valuable to measure the quality of vehicles and make that information available to the industry and the public. But to be a smart consumer, you better make sure you understand what's being measured and put it in its proper context.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
AngeloD 1:43PM (10/24/2008)
The real question is how many subscriptions has Toyota bought to CR.
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jeffzekas 3:53PM (10/24/2008)
Toyota influencing CR through buying subscriptions?-- what an inane comment! CR is beholden to NO ONE, which is why automakers (and consumers) value their decisions! And "worst" may be relative, but it IS accurate... I have ALWAYS regretted the times I HAVEN'T checked CR, before buying a vehicle (mostly, because the car was sold to me as a "gift", by my family). And sure, cars are ALL better than they were a decade ago-- if they weren't better, then we would be in sad shape! But that doesn't mean the comparisons lack accuracy. As for why CR readers buy unreliable cars: like everyone else, CR readers are moved by emotions and not pure logic... So, yes, a Honda Fit is reliable... but a Corvette is COOL!!! And, though Corvettes have TERRIBLE reliability, they are fun, fast and crazy. So, you can buy a cool car, or a reliable car, but it is difficult to find both qualities in one vehicle (exception: MINI Cooper).
Kiiks 6:00PM (10/24/2008)
Angelo *might* have been joking. ;)
Volk 12:29AM (10/25/2008)
What a moronic statement - "CR is beholden to NO ONE". Ignorance is a bliss, isn't?
tekd 2:55AM (10/25/2008)
Jeff, you had me following you until you claimed that Mini's were both cool AND reliable. They are one of the least reliable cars in existence...I've yet to encounter a Mini that didn't need constant shop visits. My friend who owns a Mini gets to drive the hilariously bad Dodge Nitro while they're constantly fixing his car. Joy.
Gabagool 1:47PM (10/24/2008)
"Actually, in terms of dependability, Mercury and Cadillac rank #2 and #3 behind #1 Lexus."----John, how can Mercury be ahead of Ford?
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RPM 1:49PM (10/24/2008)
By that line of thinking, how can Lexus be ahead of Toyota, or Cadillac ahead of Chevrolet? Clearly, it is based on brands not manufacturers.
Gabagool 1:56PM (10/24/2008)
Caddy makes totally different cars so there can easily be a difference.
In many surveys Lexus is #1 and Toyota is # 3, so that does make sense, some Lexuses are based on Toyota.
But Mercury is not based on Ford, it is Ford, it's just that Mercury costs more and and has more leather, but cars are 100% the same.
Alias 2:08PM (10/24/2008)
I think that questiion fits with exactly with the point McElroy is making...it doesn't make sense. And the surveys don't do a good job of explaining why this is....
Josh 4:34PM (10/24/2008)
Easy.
Even though Mercury is entirely owned by Ford and each dealer is furnished with pretty much the same designs, Mercury along with Lincoln are still a cohesive division of FoMoCo, and legally their sales are reported as a seperate brand. The same concept with Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda, etc.
The fact that the cars are essentially the same is meaningless, business-wise. You mean to tell me the Lexus ES is really that different than a fully loaded Camry? C'mon.
Talisman 2:13PM (10/24/2008)
@Gabagool
Obviously Ford has a wider range of cars which can lower its rating slightly.I know you are smart enough to figure this one out.
Fords current cars in general are more reliable than its trucks(which makes sense because its cars and car based suvs/crossovers are newer designs). Mercury doesnt have the trucks to weigh it down.
Vintage 2:15PM (10/24/2008)
I look at owners forums of people who actually own the car. I also look at resale values, which is why I will never own a GM/Chrysler/Ford product ever again.
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Shiftright 2:13PM (10/24/2008)
I can understand Cadillac being ahead of Chevrolet, since although they share some components, they are very different brands, but Mercury ahead of Ford? Maybe the Mercury badge has magical reliability powers.
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bravenrace 2:18PM (10/24/2008)
I love hearing all the people that reject one source or another for quality ratings. To them I say, find something better. To John I say, if all the CR subscribers "dutifully" report what CR said they would, then how did CR come to their opinion? Duh, the readers!
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bravenrace 2:19PM (10/24/2008)
Yes, and what was John's source for that information? He doesn't quote one.
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bravenrace 2:21PM (10/24/2008)
The comment about was intended as a reply to Gabagool
cowbell 2:20PM (10/24/2008)
For everyone asking about Mercury and Ford:
They are different because Mercury's average is not brought down by the relative unreliable trucks and SUVs. Mercury does not have an Expedition or Ranger version.
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Talisman 2:26PM (10/24/2008)
Exactly what I said above. Even Lincoln has the Mark LT and Navigator bringing it down slightly.
MachinaDC5 2:22PM (10/24/2008)
The car driver has an impact on every individual vehicle's reliability... Why do you think people's Buicks last forever?
Assuming an identical driver for every car, however, there unquestionably are more reliable brands than others. It's not hard to figure out who they are. Again, McElroy thinks his backwards thinking can save the Big 2.5 by hanging onto the same outdated mindset that got them into their mess.
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dc11 2:33PM (10/24/2008)
Well, for the younger people these days, they have the technological know-how to go to websites such as autoblog and web forums to find honest experiences with the vehicle they are shopping. I would find more weight in these sources than any JD power, CR, or Strategic Vision report. Those reports are coming to being obsolete quickly, with no replacement in sight.
Sad part is, there is no real translation for the information that can be found on web forums or blogs into an easy to use/understand medium.
I always tell people, the problem with these archaic style of quality reports is that it does not take in account demographics. Unless they find 100 owners of each car, and have each of those 100 individuals be nearly identical to each other, its impossible for these reports to make sense.
I'll be damned if they're saying a German brand is as reliable as a Japanese brand, just because the yuppie driving a porsche doesnt know the difference between a blown tire and a slight rattle doesnt report his problem, versus a honda civic driving riceboy who goes back to the dealership for every small problem like a rattle in his cupholder.
Show me one BMW or mercedes that doesnt have some kind of electrical problem, and i'll buy you your next german car. I lived in both the Silicon Valley and Los Angeles. Everyone drives a BMW/MB, and every one of those owners are pissed about the reliability of those things. To see either company rank anywhere close to the middle of the rankings immediately turns me off to the reports.
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