Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy
Chrysler's EVs are for real
When Chrysler rolled out three electric vehicle prototypes a couple of weeks ago most EV experts were skeptical. They were even more skeptical when the company claimed that it would have an EV on sale by 2010. Wait a minute, everyone wondered, how could Chrysler have caught up with GM, Nissan and other automakers who have been working on EV's for a lot longer?
Well, to hear Chrysler tell it, it's not behind at all. It is the first major automaker to actually allow members of the media and dealers to drive its production-intent EV's. The company claims it's been working on EV's for at least two and a half years-or about the same time as the other major OEM's. Its effort came out of the fuel cell program it was working on with Mercedes, back in the good 'ole DCX days. They merely pulled the fuel cell out and dropped in a battery pack.
John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers. Follow the jump to continue reading this week's editorial.
Chrysler is relying heavily on suppliers to provide it with the latest technology. And it believes it may be onto a new, lower-cost way of doing EV batteries thanks to a program it has going with General Electric.
Most people are unaware of this, but Chrysler is already the world's largest manufacturer of electric vehicles, as long as you count NEV's, or neighborhood electric vehicles. Thanks to its GEM subsidiary, Chrysler already has over 40,000 NEV's on the road.
While these 25-mph neighborhood vehicles can't be taken on roads with speed limits over 35 mph, the company claims it's learned some important features about how to engineer electric cars. When it comes to battery charging technology, and developing the algorithms for state-of-charge and distance remaining, GEM has provided Chrysler with a head start. Some of the power electronics can be shared, and possibly, if I understand this correctly, a battery module for accessories.
Moreover, the company is developing a family of electric motors that can be scaled up or down to be used on everything from an electric scooter to a full-size SUV. That could prove critically important because OEM's need high-volume production to spread out their investment costs. If Chrysler can come up with a family of motors to fit a variety of vehicles and build those motors in one or two plants, that could give it tremendous volume.
Chrysler's goal is not to come out with one electric car. It wants to manufacture a full family of electric vehicles, both pure EV models, and range-extending EV's with an engine on board.
In C and D-class cars, it plans to use a two- or three-cylinder turbocharged engine that is smaller than 1.0-liters of displacement. It will provide 35 kilowatts of continuous power and hit peaks of 55 kilowatts. In bigger cars and SUV's it plans to use a 1.4- or 1.6-liter engine that will run constantly between 3,000 or 3,500 rpm.
These will be purpose-built engines, not something that's already on the shelf. Since they'll be running in a very limited rev-range, the idea is to de-content them to get the cost down. For example, they will not have alternators, starters or turbo wastegates.
And in what could turn out to be the ace up its sleeve, Chrysler is working with GE on a new kind of battery pack, one that combines both lithium-ion and sodium chemistries. Li-on batteries are well suited to provide big jolts of power, while sodium batteries are better suited for providing continuous power over longer distances. But the key is that sodium batteries are significantly cheaper than lithium ones. By combining the two together GE and Chrysler hope to bring down the cost of electric vehicles.
We should know pretty soon how well this all works. The company says it will put out a test fleet of cars with all this technology next year, and have a vehicle in its showrooms by 2010. I'm sure the skeptics are still skeptical, but if Chrysler can pull this off, it's going to change a lot of people's perceptions about the future of the company.
Autoline Detroit
Airs every Sunday at 10:30AM on Detroit Public Television.
Autoline Detroit Podcast
Click here to subscribe in iTunes
Last week's show: 5-4-3-2-1
When Chrysler rolled out three electric vehicle prototypes a couple of weeks ago most EV experts were skeptical. They were even more skeptical when the company claimed that it would have an EV on sale by 2010. Wait a minute, everyone wondered, how could Chrysler have caught up with GM, Nissan and other automakers who have been working on EV's for a lot longer?Well, to hear Chrysler tell it, it's not behind at all. It is the first major automaker to actually allow members of the media and dealers to drive its production-intent EV's. The company claims it's been working on EV's for at least two and a half years-or about the same time as the other major OEM's. Its effort came out of the fuel cell program it was working on with Mercedes, back in the good 'ole DCX days. They merely pulled the fuel cell out and dropped in a battery pack.
John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers. Follow the jump to continue reading this week's editorial.
Gallery: Dodge EV, Jeep EV and Chrysler EV
Chrysler is relying heavily on suppliers to provide it with the latest technology. And it believes it may be onto a new, lower-cost way of doing EV batteries thanks to a program it has going with General Electric.
Most people are unaware of this, but Chrysler is already the world's largest manufacturer of electric vehicles, as long as you count NEV's, or neighborhood electric vehicles. Thanks to its GEM subsidiary, Chrysler already has over 40,000 NEV's on the road.
While these 25-mph neighborhood vehicles can't be taken on roads with speed limits over 35 mph, the company claims it's learned some important features about how to engineer electric cars. When it comes to battery charging technology, and developing the algorithms for state-of-charge and distance remaining, GEM has provided Chrysler with a head start. Some of the power electronics can be shared, and possibly, if I understand this correctly, a battery module for accessories.
Moreover, the company is developing a family of electric motors that can be scaled up or down to be used on everything from an electric scooter to a full-size SUV. That could prove critically important because OEM's need high-volume production to spread out their investment costs. If Chrysler can come up with a family of motors to fit a variety of vehicles and build those motors in one or two plants, that could give it tremendous volume.
Chrysler's goal is not to come out with one electric car. It wants to manufacture a full family of electric vehicles, both pure EV models, and range-extending EV's with an engine on board.
In C and D-class cars, it plans to use a two- or three-cylinder turbocharged engine that is smaller than 1.0-liters of displacement. It will provide 35 kilowatts of continuous power and hit peaks of 55 kilowatts. In bigger cars and SUV's it plans to use a 1.4- or 1.6-liter engine that will run constantly between 3,000 or 3,500 rpm.These will be purpose-built engines, not something that's already on the shelf. Since they'll be running in a very limited rev-range, the idea is to de-content them to get the cost down. For example, they will not have alternators, starters or turbo wastegates.
And in what could turn out to be the ace up its sleeve, Chrysler is working with GE on a new kind of battery pack, one that combines both lithium-ion and sodium chemistries. Li-on batteries are well suited to provide big jolts of power, while sodium batteries are better suited for providing continuous power over longer distances. But the key is that sodium batteries are significantly cheaper than lithium ones. By combining the two together GE and Chrysler hope to bring down the cost of electric vehicles.
We should know pretty soon how well this all works. The company says it will put out a test fleet of cars with all this technology next year, and have a vehicle in its showrooms by 2010. I'm sure the skeptics are still skeptical, but if Chrysler can pull this off, it's going to change a lot of people's perceptions about the future of the company.
Autoline Detroit
Airs every Sunday at 10:30AM on Detroit Public Television.
Autoline Detroit Podcast
Click here to subscribe in iTunes
Last week's show: 5-4-3-2-1
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Scott K. 7:13PM (10/10/2008)
Good info.
Good luck to them. Not a lot of (potential) good news for the US manufacturers recently. This is about the only thinkg that would out Chrysler on my shopping list, to be honest.
Reply
Ayatollah Rodriguez 7:26PM (10/10/2008)
As far as Chrysler, they pulled one off. They totally out did GM, to me this shows that the company is on the right track.
As far as VW goes (video), yeah it maybe fun to drive, but nothing beats CR-V, it's affordable, interior is great and it gets the MPGs.
Reply
Ayatollah Rodriguez 7:33PM (10/10/2008)
By the way, where can i catch Autoline Detroit in NYC, it use to be on Speed (ch 99) but it is not there anymore.
Reply
G-Meister 9:00AM (10/12/2008)
Anywhere, anytime:
http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/
Moose 9:00PM (10/10/2008)
I have an overarching question about the long term impact of electric cars. I am all for EV, and I think this is a long overdue development to distance ourselves from oil, but I am curious to know what the impact of this will be, for example:
1) How are old cars scrapped? Specifically, what do we do with millions of huge Li-on batteries as cars are retired?
2) What is the upstream impact of a million Volts plugging into the grid at the end of the day at the height of summer, with the AC cranked? "Rolling brownouts" (pun intended)?
Not being alarmist or contrarian, but I honestly haven't read anything that begins to address what the impact of this change will be is any dimension other than "its not oil".
Care to tackle that John? Would be curious to read what you have to say...
Reply
G-Meister 9:13AM (10/12/2008)
Noit that hard:
1. disposal and partial recycling of the worn out batteries can be done safely and in a responsible manner. The battery makers could lead the charge here /end pun/ Lewgislation that requires the auto makers to be responsible for any problem components on the vehicle would certainly be appropriate.
2. much like on air conditioners, you can connect your battery charger to an interruptable source to take advantage of a lower rate. When demand spikes, the utility company just turns the circuit off remotely. This usually only lasts for a few minutes.
AZMike 9:37PM (10/10/2008)
let's take a brief visit to some of John's comments in the last few months about Chrysler.
1) first, Chrysler is trash, and they'll soon go out of business. they are completely out of touch with the market, and deserve to die. good riddance.
2) next, another post here on Autoblog from John about six weeks ago, saying perhaps he was too hard on Chrysler. oh John, tell me (just maybe) they might know something you don't.
3) ...and now, Chrysler pulls three electric rabbits out of their pathetic, out of touch, and soon to be out of business hats. do you think (again, just maybe) that Cerberus may have gotten their money's worth by hiring Jim Press & Co.?
it never ceases to amaze me how these "experts" just know everything, without ever examining all the work that it takes into designing and marketing a vehicle, what market changes that can come from nowhere, (like the drastic increase in fuel prices six months ago) from the engineering and R&D, down to moving the metal from the lot.
enough of your own horn tooting, John. there are some toots coming from those Chrysler EVs coming from that gosh darn, out of touch, soon to be out of business Chrysler. you might want to get out of the way.
uh-huh.
AZMike
Reply
Brent 7:02PM (10/11/2008)
Your hatred is blinding you.
AZMike 7:18PM (10/11/2008)
hatred of what? a pompous ass who likes to toot his own horn, without regard to any information that might be accurate?
if there is any hatred involved, it seems to be McElroy who has consistently directed it against Chrysler, as I detailed in my previous post.
you might want to check out some of Mr. McElroy's former employers, which include the always domestic-hating Road and Track.
AZMike
FThorn 2:07PM (10/13/2008)
I like your comments, Mike.
We all know/realize that writers are not always extremely knowledgeable. So, don't be so hard on them. They have to earn a living, too, for their families.
But, I've always held out hope that Cerberus is keeping a good focus on how to turn Chrysler around. I think Chrysler's products are currently the worst they've been in years. But, that should work to their advantage. That is, they should NOT HESITATE to axe and start anew on the segments that they will need to grow. (especially small cars)
Julius 6:23AM (10/11/2008)
Of course, all of this may wind up being moot if Cerberus ditches Chrysler to GM...
Reply