Nissan to Porsche: Put the GT-R down before you hurt yourself
Click above for high-res gallery of the 2009 Nissan GT-R
The GT-R/911 schoolyard scuffuffle continues, with Nissan looking at Porsche's test and basically saying "yer doin it wrong" to the German automaker. Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno has graciously offered remedial driving classes to the driver for Porsche's lapping session where a GT-R was reportedly 25 seconds off Nissan's torrid time of 7 minutes, 29 seconds. Porsche had concluded that special tires must have been quietly fitted in a quest for 'Ring primacy. Porsche has yet to say anything other than "Ve don't sink zee car can do it in schtock form."
Not so, says Nissan. While a claim to the fastest production car on the Nürburgring might help prospective customers froth up some money, and owners are unlikely to try verifying the claim, Nissan is not interested in wasting time on one-offs, according to Mizuno. "For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant", says the engineer. The very tires that carried driver Toshio Suzuki on the 7:29 run are in the hands of Sumitomo, and Nissan would encourage interested parties to STFU and go look at the rolling stock. It seems Nissan thinks Porsche needs a little help figuring out the GT-R, to which the company will be happy to help. "We are aware that several automakers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation," Nissan says in its most recent rebuttal, "we would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R." Nissan's statement is after the jump.
Gallery: Review: 2009 Nissan GT-R
[Source: carsguide]
Nissan Motor Company Ltd.
Global Communications
October 9, 2008
Statement
NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES
In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.
Background
- On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany's Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.
- On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.
- For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tires. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.
- The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.
- For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by 'Best Motoring' magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.
- Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.
- In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle's development.
Tires
The GT-R offers two different tire choices for customers:
- Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
- Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT
- For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tires were used. The tires – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.
- In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:
- For any media interested in seeing the actual tires used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan.
Driving the GT-R
- Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.
- In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.
Remarks
From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:
"We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars."
"Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy."
Conclusion
Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
MajorGeek 10:38AM (10/09/2008)
One of the stupidest arguments ever, at least for me. Ive owned Nissans and the while my cars are currently all American made, the GTR is an awesome car and accomplishment from Nissan. All that said, while I do not personally care for most Porsches, I still love them for their design, performance and handling.
Nissan seems to be a bit more professional in how they are addressing it, Porsche should let their cars speak for them.
Reply
naggs 3:33PM (10/09/2008)
its not just porsche, NO ONE has been able to to get within 20 sec of nissans time. they tweaked and tuned the car, end of story.
MajorGeek 4:23PM (10/09/2008)
You must be reading a different story, I am replying to Nissans response to Porsche.
RJ 6:48PM (10/09/2008)
If they want to be professional, they just have to do one simple thing (which they've been hiding ever since Porsche called them out):
Let Porsche buy a GTR, they buy a GT2, both parties verify vehicles are stock, put their best drivers in there, and GO AT IT!
Simple as that. Mouthing around like a kid doesn't make people believe your 7:29s time any better than before.
ambientFLIER 11:41PM (10/09/2008)
How many people have tested the GT-R on the ring so far??
MajorGeek 11:47PM (10/09/2008)
Don't know. As I have said, the horsepower is available to all car companies now, its a matter of how to get that horsepower to the tires and handling. Frankly, I am old school, I just like the horsepower.
dru 1:54AM (10/10/2008)
Porsche OWNED by Nissan. Ha ha!
Mino 10:39AM (10/09/2008)
haha awesome headliner definately put a smile to my face
Reply
Ford Wannup 2:49PM (10/09/2008)
best title I've seen in Autoblog! Nissan did say as much, didn't they?
why not the LS2LS7? 10:42AM (10/09/2008)
Nissan is taking the media whoring from Hyundai's book now?
Hey Nissan. Why don't you prove whose the best on the track? Porsche races a lot of places, and I don't mean the JGTC, where you put shells over custom cars.
The 911 GT3 RSR is racing stock all over the world every weekend. Start showing up and beating them with stock Skylines and you'll really have something to crow about.
Reply
RG 10:48AM (10/09/2008)
What on earth does this argument have to do with PRODUCTION GT-R, Turbo and GT2 respectively.
Porsche is saying the GT-R is slower than the Turbo and GT2 while Nissan is saying it isn't. What does the RSR have to do with anything?
HyunDaiBanZai 10:50AM (10/09/2008)
In time, my dear Watson. In time...
why not the LS2LS7? 10:53AM (10/09/2008)
The RSR is just a production RS with a different interior (substantially less interior bits) and a lot of racing support parts. The RSR is made in small numbers, but then again, so is the GT-R.
You say Nissan is now claiming they are as fast as the GT2 RS? Oh, that's really rich. Honestly, I don't believe it. I thought they were comparing to the GT3 RS or 911 Turbo.
Tourian 11:21AM (10/09/2008)
@whynot
This has nothing to do with racing series involving race only Porsches. Besides, most sanctioning bodies don't allow AWD and F/I, so the Skyline probably couldn't compete without being switched to RWD, a whole lot of ballast, etc etc and that just wouldn't be a GT-R.
RG 11:22AM (10/09/2008)
Last I checked the RSR wasn't even road legal so it has no business being compared with the GT-R, small production numbers or not you can try to compare the two, but they are totally different animals.
GT2 RS? What on earth are you talking about, there is no such thing as a Porsche GT2 RS.
Trent 11:51AM (10/09/2008)
um, RSR isn't street legal.
mc959 12:03PM (10/09/2008)
Nissan forgot to say that they baught the 911 Turbo to compare with the GTR, when it was still developing it.
I'm sure Porsche will soon give answer, and it will be on track(really hope so!!) just to put Nissan back to it's place.
Don't get me wrong i think the GTR is fabulous and it will only help other brands to make better cars too. So Porsche the ball is at your side now!
ermax18 12:22PM (10/09/2008)
The 997 GT3 RSR isn't simply a 997 GT3 RS with striped interior. They are VERY different. They are significantly lighter and have significantly more power. You say the GT-R is limited production but not to the degree that the RSR is. The RSR is built for race teams only, and only on demand. It also costs around £320. So what is that about $553 USD. Yeah, you can't compare the street legal GT-R to the all out race car 997 RSR. Now something you could compare would be the 997 RS Vs. GT-R.
Coffee Jones 1:18PM (10/09/2008)
You might be thinking GT3 Cup.
GT3 RSR (google it) is a $400k sequential shifting formula monster that's in an entirely separate class.
It's a pointless argument. They're talking 911 T, and GT-R.
"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."
OH SNAP
why not the LS2LS7? 3:11PM (10/09/2008)
The 997 GT3 RS has a sequential gearbox too. But I guess the RSR has a different gearbox than the RS.
Part of the reason the RSR costs so much is it is expected you will race it, and instead of invalidating your warranty, Porsche will help you out to do so. That adds a lot to the cost, like it does with other cars.