![Bugatti Bird-gate Followup: Driver identity revealed <b>[*UPDATE:</b> Now with actual crash video!]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/11/bugatti-veyron-swim-1258147199_143x85.jpg)
Two down, one to go: Senate approves $25 billion for Big 3
Last week, the House of Representatives passed a bill approving a $25 billion loan for the Detroit 3. Now the Senate, by a similar margin, has passed the bill, which means it needs George W. Bush's John Hancock in order for the automakers to see their funds.The process actually began last year when Congress put the language for the loan into an energy bill, but didn't allocate the money for it. Now that the actual sum has been "found" and approved, the details of the loan and repayment need to be sorted out. The energy department has 60 days to do the math once the loan becomes law, but the Energy Secretary said it could still take 18 months or more for GM, Ford, and Chrysler to get the money.
Michigan Congressional reps have cried foul, especially because the bill also included $10 million for the Energy Department to hire outside consultants to speed things up. The department probably won't want to waste time, because Michigan Senator Carl Levine has already pledged to begin work on another round of $25 billion loans for 2009 and 2010. But when the checks finally do come, you can probably expect to see automaker reps waiting outside E-Z Check Cashing.
[Source: Detroit News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
TJ 10:56AM (9/29/2008)
They keep spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending, and spending............our money. Our money. And there isn't a thing we can do about it. They just keep on spending us deeper into a hole that we will never get back out of, because 99 percent of American's are too apathetic or too stooopid to care. They pull their heads out of their butts for 40 days once every four years, and the rest of the time are completely ignorant of the events crashing all around. Painful to watch. More painful to experience.
Reply
alex 11:08AM (9/29/2008)
copy pasted from a past article on the same topic....
I'm really suprised at the amount of ignorance in these comments. It doesn't matter what you think of the Big 3... the American economy depends on their survival.
Sure these companies have been mismanaged, so it's easy to say they had it coming... but the hundreds of thousands of people who stand to lose their jobs didn't have it coming as they didn't make the managerial decisions.
But the impact spreads far beyond Big 3 employees. It is estimated that 1 in 10 jobs in this country is associated with the auto industry. If the Big 3 go under, so do suppliers and thousands of dealerships. And what about ad agencies like Campbell Ewald who rely heavily on auto companies for revenue? What about shipping companies that import parts and vehicles for the Big 3? What about the companies contracted for janitorial work, lawn care, and snow removal at Big 3 facilities? What about restaurants, shops, hotels, etc located near Big 3 facilities?
And when all those people lose their jobs, they won't have money to spend at the places they usually spend their money at.
But wait, there's more...
We all know our financial institutions our in horrendous shape. Did any of you stop to wonder why our financial institutions were lobbying the government to give these loans to the big 3? For those who can't figure it out, those same institutions have loaned billions to the Big 3. They can't afford the Big 3 to default on those loans, and they surely can't afford for people who would lose their jobs as a result of a Big 3 collapse defaulting on their loans and mortgages. If the Big 3 collapse, they will take banks down with them.
Quit bitching about how it's YOUR tax money going to these companies and realize that the economic fallout from a collapse of the Big 3 would cost you far more.
And also, most countries provide grants to private companies for research and technological innovation. Case in point, Japan funded the development of the Prius for Toyota. The US govt also used to fund research for the Big 3 to make more efficient vehicles, but Cowboy Bush cut that funding. So you could almost view this as our government making up for the funding they should have been giving for the last 8 years and not a bailout.
TJ 11:19AM (9/29/2008)
Ah... the 'too big to fail' argument. Strange how the companies that are too big to fail all have connections up the ying-yang with Washington insiders, spend the most money by far on lobbying, have the greatest governmental 'pull'. Cronyism is Cronyism, regardless of how big or small the company is. Corruption is corruption, regardless of the level of government. Excessive and unnecessary spending is still excessive and unnecessary. Big government creates the problems, bigger government is not going to solve the problems.
copy and paste from an email:
We have the Bailout going around currently in the news, where large companies are getting bailed out...
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend".
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car - create jobs Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Atul 11:46AM (9/29/2008)
TJ,
Your math is way off...
"So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00."
That would be $425. Now figure out how that impacts the rest of what you wrote.
AngeloD 11:52AM (9/29/2008)
""We have the Bailout going around currently in the news, where large companies are getting bailed out...
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend".
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00. ""
er no.. that actually works out to $425 per person, not $425,000.
The Luigiian 11:54AM (9/29/2008)
@Alex:
Maybe if it weren't for people like you defending the D3's rights to get money whenever they want it they wouldn't be in this position in the first place.
The reason the Detroit Three don't try harder to make money is because they don't care. The managers know they'll make big bucks whether their company survives or not, because the government will bail them out. They'll get their money via either a golden parachute or their paycheck. Why should they care which way they get it?
You say we're ignorant for not supporting giving billions to companies that don't deserve it. Apparently neither TJ nor I know about the hundreds of thousands of workers who will lose their jobs. We do. We care about them. Which is why we don't support this bailout. The bailout doesn't help the workers at all in the long run. Their jobs will still get outsourced to Mexico or Canada regardless of whether the Detroit Three survive or not, because the managers in charge only care about making sure their cars are assembled to the lowest bidder.
Guess what? If the D3 die, their jobs will still be given to someone else. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, Volkswagen, and Hyundai will simply build new plants to build more cars to take over the D3's consumer base. They will likely build these plants... in the United States, ironically enough, because they know if they don't they'll get a backlash from people who support American labor.
Regardless of whether we give the D3 money or not they will die. They are dinosaurs in their business practices and they don't care about the American people any more than Toyota or any transplant does. Until the Big Three start caring about the American worker and stop outsourcing American jobs I don't see why I should start caring about them.
TJ 12:47PM (9/29/2008)
"er no.. that actually works out to $425 per person, not $425,000."
carry the one, cross multiply by a factor of three....
As stated, copy and paste of chain email.
The Luigiian 2:26PM (9/29/2008)
TJ, I'll make it simpler for you:
-Take the $25 billion bailout for the Big Three.
-Give it to the workers.
At least then we can be rest assured the money will not go into upper management's pockets.
Nick 11:01AM (9/29/2008)
Another epic failure by the US government. I sure hope this doesn't pass.
Reply
JD 11:02AM (9/29/2008)
You know, the combined market cap of Ford and GM is about $16.24B (5.57B for GM, 10.67B for ford). Chrysler, of course, is privately held. Why exactly are they getting $25B of "loans?" The government could buy them both outright with that money, not like we'd want them to. What a joke.
They made their own beds- they have been for more than 2 decades. I don't think any of them deserve a penny.
If they are going to bill me, I want a cut of the profits. That sounds fair, doesn't it?
Reply
Randy 12:40PM (9/29/2008)
I truly believe that if the US Government had levied tariffs on imports from the start it would not have forced US Automakers to cut corners to be able to compete on price.
Now that the playing field is leveled (UAW's got realistic and less greedy) US companies can compete on price and NOT cut corners.
So in short, the US Governments failure to impose tariffs which would have cost the consumer of the product ends up costing everyone in the country.
Now keep in mind, these are loans, not bailouts! They'll pay the money back and at the same time keep millions of people employed!
Furthermore the folks that will remain employed will also be able to spend money and make money which all gets taxed; which is what this country needs to happen to create a federal revenue. So if we want 25 Billion in tax dollars, then the collective millions employed directly and indirectly by the Big 3 will have to at minimum $62,500,000,000. Sounds big right? It's really not! Figuring that when you add just 1,000,000 people to equation that are employed because of US auto makers and an annual salary range of 65,000 the fed gets "21.67 Billion" in taxes in one year. Not to mention the taxes that are made when the other 66% of the money earned is spent. So it's an immediate wash! If these people don't work, the fed makes 0 and incur more costs and it costs the US tax payer more!
All because of not imposing tariffs! Likely due to the fact that the US nuked Japan and tried to make right on it at the expense of tax payers!
Now we know why it's so important to vote for people that will take care of the US and us and not other countries!
PiCASSO 1:44PM (9/29/2008)
Well said, Randy.
BoxerFanatic 11:04AM (9/29/2008)
They "found" $25B??? BS. They borrowed it. They are so far beyond a balanced budget, it isn't even in the same hemisphere.
Congratulations to the american taxpayer for being under even more debt, now.
Gee, Gov't bureaucracy doesn't react that quickly? IF GM were a bigger contributor or power broker, like the FED, they would have something done in a week or two.
Carl Levine wants another round of lot of other people's money for his patron industry?
Where does he think this golden-egg laying goose lives? At the top of a magic beanstalk?
GET A CLUE WASHINGTON, YOU ARE BANKRUPTING US, NOT DOING US FAVORS! WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE, AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING!
Not that they would care if they read this. They don't listen to the people they tax any more than King George did, which resulted in a war for independence. What would those patriots think now, for the country they fought and died for, and many patriots since, as well.
Reply
BigMcLargeHuge 11:20AM (9/29/2008)
Unfortunately, while its obvious the career congresspersons are ruining the country from the top-down, we're at a stage in America where so few understand economics, or US government and history.
American voters are a far more fickle mob than I can ever remember. They don't like bad news, can't deal with hardship. Blow the really unimportant out of proportion and pay absolutely no attention to the real threats.
So they flip-flop to anyone selling a bag of lies. Now a politician doesn't even have to hide the fact that their promises will remain empty in office. The public is too ignorant to look up the facts and determine if these promises are even feasible. Just promise something hopeful and they'll flock like sheep. Even if its beyond the realm of possibility.
This is going to be a tough few decades. Bailouts regardless, I don't think we're comprehending how bad it is going to get.
Yar 11:06AM (9/29/2008)
Does this mean I get a discount rate for my CTS-V? Considering that I'm a taxpayer.
Reply
Frylock350 11:07AM (9/29/2008)
All you ricer fanboys crying foul really don't understand what would happen if GM or Ford (or even Chrysler) were to go under. GM is responsible for more jobs than any other corporation in America. They hire tons of people directly and indirectly. 1 in 15 jobs in this country are related to America's auto industry. Like them or not, they are a huge part of our economy. Right now we can see the direct and painful result of what happens when you don't support domestic industry. Just ask Britain what happened when they did nothing to protect their industry.
Reply
TJ 11:13AM (9/29/2008)
I am FAR from a ricer fanboy... and all the post above, no tone mentions any brand by name.
I am not a xenophobe, I am not an isolationist. I am a capitalist. I am a taxpayer. I am part of the 67% of Americans against the $700,000,000,000 financial sector bailout. I am against this loan program. I am against future loan distribution programs as stated in the article.
You want to help the company? Look to taxes. The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Lower the tax rate, and the loans are not needed. It is absurd that the Automakers require a nanny state government to authorize the return of their own money for them to invest in their business.
Nick 11:16AM (9/29/2008)
Well if I worked in the auto industry then I would be making sure I learned a so I can find another stable job.
Maybe they should learn to speak spanish. Then they could communicate with their soon to be new coworkers. You made a bad job choice now you want me to pay for your mistake.
Yar 11:22AM (9/29/2008)
"GM is responsible for more jobs than any other corporation in America."
No, that's Wal-Mart, who employs over 5 times as many people as GM.
And I'm not a ricer, I LOVE GM. I've owned dozens of their cars, and I pray that they will continue to succeed.
However, I am also a capitalist. The way I see it, if you make your money in the Free Market (as free as one can expect) then you shouldn't be surprised when you lose your money in the Free Market.
You Live by the Sword, You Die by the Sword.
JD 11:33AM (9/29/2008)
I agree, Yar- sink or swim, there should be no life jackets.
On top of that, I think it's good to think about why socialist leaning countries can afford things like what our government is doing right now; Their tax rates are very high. 40% is not unreasonable in these places- we simply cannot have socialist policies with capitalist taxes.
We can't even keep ourselves afloat with just the war right now. We just can't afford to pay this bill.