Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Government/Legal, Green
Are fuel prices hurting acceptance of modern diesels?
click above for high-res gallery of the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
Diesel fuel prices are hovering about 20 above gasoline on average. It seems that automakers are a bit worried this disparity could have a negative impact on their upcoming diesel-powered cars and trucks. While it's true that Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz are already rolling out new oil-burners in all 50 states with positive results, there remains a concern that there are only so many buyers willing to spend extra to get a more efficient engine and then pay extra to fill it up. At a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee on diesel fuel prices today, a spokesperson for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers fell short of suggesting what to do about the situation, choosing instead to highlight the fact that diesel fuel is taxed more than gasoline, whereas in Europe where oil-burners are much more popular, the opposite is true. Reading between the lines a bit, it's not hard to see his point.
Check out our recent In the Autoblog Garage review of the 2009 VW Jetta TDI to hear our take on today's modern diesels.
[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Will 3:39PM (9/23/2008)
Diesel would have to be $6.54 to break even in cost efficiency between my VW and Cadillac. Take a look at this calculator that will show you how much you can save with a diesel even if it costs more.
http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_fuel/fuel.php
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Berto 4:45PM (9/23/2008)
I also try explaining this to people with no success. Unfortunately we are dealing with 'average consumers.' If you are common to Autoblog, we need not repeat ourselves on the 'average consumer.'
Nonetheless, most people won't factor in efficiency, but rather just focus on initial upfront cost.
Math = too complicated.
Dave 7:11PM (9/23/2008)
"Diesel would have to be $6.54 to break even in cost efficiency between my VW and Cadillac. "
You're comparing a VW and a Cadillac. What does that have to do with anything??????
This post is about NEW CAR BUYERS.
In the real world, consumers compare the purchase price of a diesel VW vs a gasoline VW and then compare the price of the fuel.
No one is cross-shopping a $40,000 Cadillac and a $25,000 diesel Jetta.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:31PM (9/23/2008)
Unless your VW is a Phaeton, that's a completely ridiculous equivalency to try to make.
Will 9:56AM (9/24/2008)
I have a 2001 STS and a 2001 Beetle. According to the EPA, a gas powered beetle should average 22 MPG. That is what the STS gets when I drive it and is what I used for that comparison. Even if you average 25 MPG in the gas beetle, diesel would have to be $5.75 for it to be the same cost to operate. I currently average 39 MPG in the beetle and it is an automatic. People with manual diesel beetles and jettas get 4-5 MPG better than that.
Torrent 3:39PM (9/23/2008)
I know if I wanted great fuel economy, but didn't want a hybrid, I'd go for diesel.
Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic gets frickin 65 MPG, but won't be sold in America, because Ford says America isn't ready for a diesel. The ECOnetic would be first on my list if it was sold here, diesel or not.
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brn 3:40PM (9/23/2008)
Putting aside the EPA issues....
You bet the prices have something to do with it. In addition, if demand increases, the price discrepancy is going to get even larger. Unless diesel alternatives are able to go mainstream, I wouldn't try to produce a diesel engine for the mass consumer.
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BigMcLargeHuge 3:48PM (9/23/2008)
Key word 'currently' hovering 20 cents above. Down from 70 cents.
Point is, there is no telling where the market will be a year from now. A year ago diesel was cheaper.
And as for all those who say 'diesel just doesn't make economic sense anymore'.... those were very nearsighted criticisms when it comes to car ownership.
'Anymore' only relates to a 6-month window of time when diesel spiked at twice the rate of gasoline. It is now falling at twice the rate. The trending dictates that they will be equal by the end of the year. There is even the possibility diesel will become cheaper again.
People will buy some amount of diesels if they are any good. So the automakers should just continue with plans to market the ones that are nice to drive.
If the makers pull out and the price of diesel continues to drop, VW and Merc will just sop up all the sales. Oh well.
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xspeedy 3:59PM (9/23/2008)
Diesels are just cool. Screw the cost effectiveness. Yes, it will take time to break even on the engine premium. But a diesel is so great because it gives us torque where we need it - at the bottom of the rev counter.
In the end, being green right now is going to cost money. The hybrids aren't exactly competing with mainstream gas cars in price and I wouldn't expect diesels to do the same. At least the diesels won't need an expensive set of batteries when they are a few years old.
AZZO45b 4:52PM (9/23/2008)
When people come onto AB & spout prices... it has to be remembered it all depends on WHERE you live. MI, OH IN, IL, & WI seem to get their gas & diesel from the same midwest source.
I'm pretty familiar with S/E MI & S/E WI (Madison area) within the last 18 months & diesel was NEVER cheaper than gasoline.
When diesel was first hyped in the USA (back in the 70s) for cars it was stated repeatedly that it was MUCH CHEAPER to refine than gas... yet we get to record oil profits of the YK decade & its usually much HIGHER...
...I now understand why some people subscribe to conspiracy theories!
BigMcLargeHuge 11:08PM (9/23/2008)
If I ever 'spout' prices, it is based on the NATIONAL AVERAGE as calculated on the EIA.gov site.
Your prices may vary, but they do their homework.
AZZO45b 2:17AM (9/24/2008)
Sorry, but "National Average" never seems close to reflecting the ACTUAL prices in S/E MI, Chicago-land, & my friends in greater Los Angeles.
That's all I was sayin' !!!
3seriesisking 3:50PM (9/23/2008)
Yes.
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john riley 3:50PM (9/23/2008)
Usually when someone says "clean diesel" someone else jumps in and says that while they meet regs, they aren't clean at all.
For the high mileage driver, I suppose they make sense, and I recognize the huge role in Europe, but for N Am it may be time to move on to the next thing, which may be series hybrids, and just skip diesels.
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BigMcLargeHuge 3:56PM (9/23/2008)
Or diversify.
jonathan charak 3:59PM (9/23/2008)
Or diesel hybrids??? take both
why not the LS2LS7? 11:34PM (9/23/2008)
That would be me. And they're not particularly clean. In fact, due to their level of not-cleanliness, in CARB areas the companies must restrict the number of Diesel sales in order to not run afoul of fleet average requirements. Note that this is not an issue outside of CARB areas and there are also a good number of gas cars for which this is also true in the CARB areas.
In as much as any new car is cleaner than an older car, these Diesels are a big improvement. Versus any other new car for offer, they can't really be considered particularly clean.
BigMcLargeHuge 3:56PM (9/23/2008)
Well diesel is dropping at twice the rate of gasoline for the past 2 months. By your logic, if its totally price related, all manufacturers should just stop making gasoline engines if diesel dips below.
If the demand for diesel increases? Thats going to be a long, slow process for the US. Refineries would be able to shift production to diesel in the amount of time that would take.
Besides, demand for all fuels is going up, so its not like the price of diesel won't be tied to the price of gasoline. When one trends up, so does the other.
Both are unstable. Might as well have gasoline and diesel available models so that consumers can continue fickle buying trends based on a 6-month spike in the price of one over the other.
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BigMcLargeHuge 3:58PM (9/23/2008)
reply to BRN
brn 6:31PM (9/23/2008)
"US. Refineries would be able to shift production to diesel "
That's the problem. They can't. A barrel of oil makes X amount of gasoline and Y amount of diesel. Not one or the other, but both from the same barrel. As such, they can't shift production. The percentages are fixed (with a small variance).