Filed under: Convertibles, Coupes, Economy, Sedans/Saloons, Pontiac, Rumormill
Plans for an all-RWD Pontiac shelved?
Click above for high-res gallery of the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
A quick glance at Pontiac's (rumored) future product plans reveals just how much fuel prices have affected plans for an all rear-wheel drive lineup. Let's see, we've got the Solstice and the G8, and, um... that's it. Sure, we're expecting the G8 ST soon, but the El Camino-come-lively will never sell enough to keep bean counters happily sliding their abaci beads in their cubicles. The Solstice also plays to a relatively small crowd, so its future could be up in the air, as well.
As for the rest of the brand's lineup, the
[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Brian 4:05PM (8/25/2008)
Damn CAFE regulations. I would have loved a small RWD Alpha platform pontiac.
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Big Rocket 4:12PM (8/25/2008)
@Brian: Damn CAFE indeed, because, as we all know, gas prices have nothing to do with a shift in consumer demand.
Russell 4:25PM (8/25/2008)
Until people stop buying Camrys and similar $h!t, this is how its going to be.
Brian 4:27PM (8/25/2008)
Well Big Rocket its called choice. CAFE limits choice. GM was already talking about an all rear drive lineup last year. CAFE has killed it. Alot of enthusiasts want rear drive cars. If consumers need a fuel efficient car they should buy one. Don't buy a gas hog then complain to the government that automakers are making cars more fuel efficient.
Big Rocket 5:01PM (8/25/2008)
@Brian: It's also called supply and demand. With gas around $4 a gallon, consumer demand is very limited for Hummers, RWD Pontiacs with big V8s, etc. GM knows this, and has wisely decided to focus scarce financial resources on what consumers demand nowadays: fuel-efficient vehicles such as the Cruze and the Volt. Talk of CAFE ignores market realities, and is a red-herring or scapegoat in disguise.
Mez Jr 7:09PM (8/25/2008)
Using CAFE as a scapegoat is pretty weak. I refuse to believe that its not possible to make RWD cars economical. Dial back the HP and dial up the handling and RWD can be economical.
More likely the real reason GM is shelving the idea of an all RWD pontiac is because they're cash strapped and they can't afford to fund a whole lot of R&D so they need to invest what resources they do have in shorter term projects.
jg 7:05PM (8/25/2008)
CAFE doesn't limit choice, automakers limit choice. CAFE is just part of the rules of doing business in America. The rules are going to favor what's in the best interests of the country. Reducing smog is one of those things, so is lowering the amount of fuel we use. Automakers profits are not one of those things. That's a concern of automakers. They choose to follow the rules by building cars based on a global platform. This helps to offset the R&D costs. The global platform of choice is FWD. CAFE has nothing to do with that. FWD is better suited to all environments than RWD. Cargo space is also a factor.
The CAFE crap is nothing but noise. Automakers, like most big businesses, would prefer a republican dominated government. If blaming liberals and democrats for your lack of RWD cars will get you to vote republican then they'll say CAFE is killing them. It works.
PJ 7:14PM (8/25/2008)
The bigger question, to me, is why Pontiac thinks that not having an all-RWD lineup excuses them for making boring cars. Lutz seems to be saying, "well, we wanted Pontiac to make fun cars, now we can't, and it's everyone else's fault."
WTF? Mazda has been one of the automakers with the most enthusiast buzz for the last several years, and that's thanks partly to responsive and properly-screwed-down front-drivers like the 3 and 6. Cars like the Altima and Fit manage to be sportier than direct rivals without having RWD.
The G5, G6, Grand Prix, and Torrent are boring because they're cost-cutting, conservatively engineered products with sloppy detail tuning--not *because* they're FWD.
If Pontiac wanted to walk their branding talk, they could still do it with front-drive, to the same extent that Mazda, Nissan, and Honda do. But aside from the G8 and Solstice, and especially on its volume sellers, Pontiac still seems to believe that "sportiness" comes down to badging and sheetmetal. They'll run the division into the ground with this business model, while using CAFE and the no-RWD talk to make it someone else's fault.
Torrent 12:54AM (8/26/2008)
A RWD Vibe GXP would have been smokin'.
Kevin W. 4:14PM (8/25/2008)
I think that Pontiac can get away with FWD on it's lower end models, if they really put some effort into making the car drive well. (No Grand Am's please.......) They really need to make the cars that Pontiac's variants of GM platforms are differenciated very far away from their Saturn and Chevy counterparts.
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Kevin W. 4:15PM (8/25/2008)
I think that Pontiac can get away with FWD on it's lower end models,
if they really put some effort into making the car drive well. (No
Grand Am's please.......) They really need to make the cars that
Pontiac's variants of GM platforms are differenciated very far away
from their Saturn and Chevy counterparts.
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azzo45 4:24PM (8/25/2008)
Seems like a PERFECT time to kill a brand (IMO). GM has way too many & anything Pontiac has can be re-badged a Chevy. Saturn should be next!
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mike 4:25PM (8/25/2008)
Once again this shows us that Rick Wagoner is a DEADBEAT.
This car looks great, from what I understand drives great, it’s a good overall vehicle. Engineers and design people did their part, but it was the management that gave the go ahead to bring this car here while gas is that expensive. This car would be a hit had it been here say 4 years ago. This shows lack of foresight, inability to recognize market and generally being not overly bright.
Oil has been going up steadily since September 11, 2001---GMs answer to increase in oil is Cruze, it will be here in 2010, that’s 9 years.
If this will not convince you that Wagoner needs to go, nothing will.
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azzo45 4:32PM (8/25/2008)
4 years ago the G8 was here.... it was just called the GTO! Wagner deserves to be dumped on... but NOT for this (IMO)
A&W 4:27PM (8/25/2008)
GM should let Caddy and Pontiac share some RWD platforms. That way, Caddy can have its four cylinder entry level model and spread the cost out with Pontiac. Pontiac can have RWD vehicles and be the performance brand it was meant to be.
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leonjoramos 4:33PM (8/25/2008)
in short: Badge Engineering, the Cimarron way
azzo45 4:38PM (8/25/2008)
Cadillac should not be sharing ANYTHING with Pontiac. That is the one GM division that has built itself back up
Jimbo 5:10PM (8/25/2008)
Cadillac is already planning on using the Zeta (G8, Camaro) platform for the next-gen CTS and STS (although the STS may be on hold).
cire_1wb 5:29PM (8/25/2008)
I totally agree with you, A&W. I think it would work if GM would reconfigure their dealer networks. Chevrolet, Pontiac, and GMC should be combined to form a mainstream dealer super-network. Chevrolet would offer affordable FWD cars, affordable FWD/AWD crossovers, and the Camaro/Corvette sports cars. Pontiac would offer an affordable RWD car lineup (which would be unique in the market). GMC would be the corporation's sole truck/SUV division. Saturn would be converted to Opel and combined with Saab to form an import focused dealer network. Buick and Cadillac would be combined to form the luxury dealer network. Buick would offer FWD luxury cars and FWD/AWD luxury crossovers while Cadillac would focus solely on well executed, world class RWD luxury cars. Hummer needs to be sold if GM can find any company foolish enough to buy it.
As far as platform sharing, I see it looking something like this:
* Alpha: Pontiac would receive a compact 3-door/5-door ("LeMans") aligned stylistically with a resurrected Holden Torana with styling based on the attractive Holden Torana TT 36 Concept (182 inches on 109 inch wheelbase). Cadillac would receive a compact sedan/coupe/wagon (B-Series?).
* SWB Sigma-Zeta: Pontiac would receive a midsize sedan/coupe ("Grand Prix") aligned stylistically with a downsized next gen Holden Commodore (190 inches on 114 inch wheelbase). Cadillac would receive a next gen midsize C-Series sedan/coupe/wagon.
* LWB Sigma-Zeta: Pontiac would receive a large sedan ("Bonneville") aligned stylistically with a downsized next gen Holden Statesman (198 inches on 118 inch wheelbase). Cadillac would receive a next gen STS large sedan.
* Kappa: I heard a rumor that this platform will be discontinued and that the next gen Solstice/Sky/GT have been cancelled. I wouldn't mind that happening if GM would give Pontiac/Cadillac the lineups that I have proposed above instead.
* XLR: I'm not sure whether GM will continue this car for Cadillac when the next gen Corvette arrives (which I heard might be delayed). From what I understand, the XLR never met GM's sales expectations.
why not the LS2LS7? 6:49PM (8/25/2008)
azzo45:
The Catera and the GTO were built on the same platform. Not at the same time, but would it really have mattered if they were built at the same time?
I agree it's really key that Cadillacs not be interchangeable with other GM brands' cars. But assuming they do the job right and not just drop a spoiler on and a wood trim strip inside, I don't have a problem with some platform sharing.