Saab 9-5 packing 1.6-liter turbo in Europe
Saab's rumored decision to downsize its engines gets some confirmation today, as reports indicate that the Swedish brand's next 9-5 will get just 1.6-liters of displacement for its base engine. However, power should still be up to par, as the mill will get a high-pressure turbocharger to boost output. Despite the small-bore engine, the next 9-5 will be built atop the Epsilon II platform which underpins the latest Opel Insignia and which will cause the new 9-5 to grow in size compared to the current car. The 9-3 will move down to the Delta platform, shared with the Chevy Cruze and other mid-size derivatives.
In addition to the little 1.6, the up-level Saab will get at least one diesel engine along with the 2.8-liter V6 from the GM parts bin. Its Swedish heritage will remain intact thanks to the continued usage of Saab's BioPower engines, which combine high-pressure turbocharging with small, E85-fueled four-cylinder engines and an all-wheel drive system similar to the one just released on the latest 9-3.
[Source: Channel 4]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Valentino Amoro 7:11PM (8/11/2008)
All factors equal small turbo engines with the same power = Turbo Lag.
My Audi TT 1.8T has 225 HP but quite a healthy lag.
That said, it will allow the car to cruise on the freeway without needing Turbo.
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why not the LS2LS7? 7:29PM (8/11/2008)
This is because Audi just isn't particularly good at turbos. They are years behind on their technology, having no system at all of anti-lag like dual-entry/dual-scroll or variable geometry turbos.
Valentino Amoro 7:33PM (8/11/2008)
True. The new variable geometry turbos like the 911 Turbo and the Bi-turbos can go a long way in reducing lag for a small engine.
azzo45 8:01PM (8/11/2008)
The Audi R10 TDI I saw zipping around Road America this weekend (finishing 1-2 overall) looked like a pretty high tech TURBO!!!
If their turbo knowledge has been "lagging" (sorry had to throw that pun in...) I'm sure future Audi turbos will draw from some very deep R&D.
why not the LS2LS7? 8:23PM (8/11/2008)
Bi-turbos do not decrease lag. Yes, it reduces the mass of the turbo impellers, but it also cuts the amount of air pushing on the vanes because it only gets the exhaust from half of the engine. - Corky Bell
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606
I also own an Audi 2.7T (twin-turbo). Trust me on this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Audi finally roll out anti-lag soon, assuming they don't go to all superchargers.
Torqued 9:01PM (8/11/2008)
some bi-turbos have a small and a large turbo, with the small one helping to get rid of the lag from the big one. I think there was a twin-turbo supra that did this?
Valentino Amoro 11:31PM (8/11/2008)
@Torqued
That is what I meant by bi-Turbo and they do reduce lag.
The small turbo spools up quicker than the larger.
What LS2/LS7 is talking about is a Twin Turbo setup. This is different, which two equal size turbos in parallel.
why not the LS2LS7? 12:44AM (8/12/2008)
You're right, sequential turbos can reduce lag. But honestly, sequential turbos don't make sense in current street setups anymore because things like variable geometry work as well or better and are cheaper, smaller and more efficient.
ASEVENSEE4 5:33AM (8/12/2008)
The 2.0T is almost lag free, and the only lag it has is slightly off the line, Audi has a winner with that turbocharged engine, it feels faster than it is and has a nice flat torque curve.. you don't need the latest in turbocharging technology to make a good turbocharged engine.
TigerMil 7:54PM (8/14/2008)
Agree. I have a loaner Audi 2.0T and even though it's direct injection and has a six speed trans (autostick) it definitely has turbo lag.
Worst thing is that it doesn't behave like a turbo..there is no kick in the pants as the turbo spools up. The six speeds compensate for turbo lag in low gears but the control system doesn't allow increasing torque with rpm...the torque curve is pretty flat.
Now, Audi's 2.0T with a K04, 250 hp, let's go from there. OTOH, they surely leave a lot of room for tuners.
why not the LS2LS7? 7:11PM (8/11/2008)
Is this one of the "family 0" motors like the 1.4T that will come to the US? Or is a prequel to these?
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UH2L 7:17PM (8/11/2008)
Valentino,
True that turbos have lag, but the VW/Audi and other turbo engines have come a long way in terms of reducing it. A lot of it depends on electronic throttle control and how low of an rpm, the max torque can be reached.
My 210 hp Saab 2.0 T and the 175 hp 2.0 t I had before both use some turbo boost at highway speeds which is why the smaller turbo'ed 175 hp version used less fuel at highway speeds. You would think it's not necessary, but I do notice some boost on the gage too.
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Red 7:20PM (8/11/2008)
Despite it's output, I've read the 1.6L turbo in the Mini Clubman can feel downright anemic on warmer days, so I can't imagine how a 1.6L turbo is adequate enough to move around a larger vehicle like one built on the Epsilon II platform.
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Red 7:25PM (8/11/2008)
People tend to forget another factor in lag is the atmosphere. I've driven cars with small displacement turbo motors that, on cooler days had practically no lag whatsoever. But those same cars tend to suffer pretty badly on hotter days, as per my comment about the Clubman. I've literally sat in the car with my foot on the pedal waiting for the turbo to finally spool. It can be annoying, but I figure if the efficiency is good enough, most people can live with the trade-off when it's keeping money in their pockets.
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Michael D. 8:54PM (8/11/2008)
It's nice that a new 9-5 will replace the long-running predecessor (which seems to have had a double life-cycle), but I hope it has more to offer than a four-banger, turbo or not, which is not suitable for it's class and image. The outgoing model is obviously now a lame-duck, but it only offers a turbo-fed four whereas the 9-3 offering below it offers V6's.
A 1.6L turbo-four would probably be a good entry engine for European territories, but it's too small for the 9-5's class in the USDM. I hope strong V6's are offered in the 9-5 this time around and not something tepid - that would be a let-down after the anticipation of the next-generation Saab 9-5.
Who knows, perhaps it will share a good turbo-V6 powerplant with the upcoming 9-4 crossover.
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arturo 9:02PM (8/11/2008)
i have never driven a turbo but I am just wondering what you mean turbo lag? do you experience turbo lag for example if you are in 5th gear and drop it to 4th gear? what really happens to the turbo? does it brings more air to the engine or how does it work?
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Mike 9:46PM (8/11/2008)
basically, turbo lag is when you hit the gas pedal and the turbo takes awhile to spool up from the exhaust fumes and increase power output
Simplest terms how a turbo works is this, its a windmill which is powered by your exhaust gases, its turning motion is used to force MORE air into the engine, this gives you more bang for your buck basically per combustion cycle because there is a higher Oxygen content. Same thing is happening when you put in NOS (nitrous oxide) or methanol/water which have a higher oxygen composition than does air (air is only ~20 O2)
psarhjinian 10:15PM (8/11/2008)
A new 9-5, huh? And only eleven or so years on the market.
Way to go, GM; maintain the one Saab tradition (excessively long lifespans) that actually did need to die.
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Swede 2:21PM (8/12/2008)
Saab had almost completed the replacement when GM decided to scrap it. GM's missmanagement is the reason to the excessive life cycle.
Holden Miecranc 11:50PM (8/11/2008)
Saab is like Bob Dylan. People says he's really great, but very few people actually listen to him. For a reason.
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