Filed under: Car Buying, Green, Japan, Tech, Honda, Nissan
Honda and Nissan working to mass-market carbon fiber
Honda and Nissan are looking for ways to make cars lighter, better, and more recyclable, both for their own benefits and their customers. We've heard about the increased use of aluminum to save weight; next on the heavy R&D frontier could be carbon fiber. Both companies have teamed up with Japanese carbon fiber company Toray, and Mitsubishi Rayon -- a Japanese version of DuPont -- to research new, less expensive carbon fiber for cars.
Their efforts will be helped by the government, which is injecting two billion yen into the project over five years. The plan is that by the middle of the next decade, they'll be able to mass produce a cost effective carbon fiber and use it to reduce the weight of cars by 40-percent. And when they're finished with it, they will also be able to recycle it to reduce production costs.
The current price of carbon fiber makes its use prohibitive except for ornamentation or for use on the most expensive cars. With the price of steel -- and cars -- expected to keep climbing, the mass produced, recyclable carbon fiber will make financial sense in the not-too-distant future. Add in the fuel savings from lighter vehicles, and fewer emissions, and it looks like everyone wins. Thanks for the tip, David!
[Source: Reuters via Carbon Fiber Gear, Photo: p914 | Licensed under Creative Commons 2.0]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
_Jon 2:37PM (7/24/2008)
Then they will come back and say "we had no government help!"....
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Red 2:53PM (7/24/2008)
If it's the beginning of something feasible for the automotive industry as a whole (undoubtedly, other automakers will be looking into it as well), and you're standing at the parts counter, overlooking a replacement panel for your 10 year old carbon fibered Honda or Nissan, taking note that the price isn't nearly as high as you thought considering the significant improvement in emissions and fuel efficiency you've noticed, what the hell do you care?
Steve 2:57PM (7/24/2008)
Why does Honda and Nissan even accept 2 billion yen which is 20 million dollars which is 10 million per company which DOES NOTHING FOR ANYTHING.
The only thing it does is make people like _Jon come out of the woodwork and talk about how everything Japanese is subsidized.
BigMcLargeHuge 3:19PM (7/24/2008)
@ Steve,
probably because its going to the CF manufacturer to develop the tooling and production plan for THIS specific project.
Its kinda like government contracting here. That much time would be charged 'direct' to the government to satisfy some government mandated feasibility study.
Our EPA does it all the time. This is not 'propping up' a company.
Ligor 5:44PM (7/24/2008)
kinna like Bush approving the 4 billion dollar going to the big 2.5
every gov steps in at some critical point, evenours.
Kiiks 9:02PM (7/24/2008)
Sure, like putting a Band-Aid on an exit wound, but its the thought that counts, right?
TriShield 2:37PM (7/24/2008)
Imagine how easy it would be to total out a car with a substantial amount of carbon fiber, and imagine how much it would cost replace carbon fiber parts after a little fender bender or animal mishap on the road.
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tankd0g 3:01PM (7/24/2008)
If they could make it as cheaply as say, fiberglass, the parts would be pretty cheap.
Brent 3:05PM (7/24/2008)
They are trying to make it cheaper. So it wouldn't be as expensive as you think.
azzo45 3:09PM (7/24/2008)
I suggest you google or YouTube Timo Glock's (Toyota F1) high speed accident at last weekends German GP before you get all excited about making the whole car out of carbon fiber.
Body work & ultra light weight GREAT, but as strong as carbon fiber is... its also becomes weak after one impact. You don't want suspension pieces & brakes rotors made from this for a common street car.
homunculus 3:27PM (7/24/2008)
wow, people will complain about everything, even cheaper carbon fiber.
i don't get it.
Aki 3:35PM (7/24/2008)
Uhhh Azzo45, ANYTHING becomes weak after a major impact. CF getting weak after a 100mph crash in an F1 GP race? Gee, that's a shocker.
CarbonBlack 3:44PM (7/24/2008)
It seems that the concept of crumple zones wont work with carbon fiber. I would guess that there will have to be a lot of safety research!
azzo45 5:56PM (7/24/2008)
aki: the Glock crash was 150MPH plus & obviously anything can get weaker (depending on the impact) once crunched.
My point was in response to someone wanting the WHOLE car speced out in CF.
Aluminum or steel are going to hold up to low speed scuffs & impacts... MUCH better than CF. Both those materials can withstand heat & direct sunlight. CF starts to become more & more brittle under these conditions.
CraigD 12:08PM (7/25/2008)
How quickly we forget...
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/18/video-mclaren-f1-crash-test/
geo.stewart 2:39PM (7/24/2008)
introducing the new E85 Carbon fiber...
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Gardiner Westbound 2:41PM (7/24/2008)
In 10-years when Honda and Nissan are marketing carbon fiber cars that out perform everything on the road the Detroit-3 will be wondering what happened, if they're still around.
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The Other Bob 2:48PM (7/24/2008)
And everyone will be saying damn those stupid Detroit three, they don't need any government help, those Japanese do it all by themselves.
BigMcLargeHuge 2:55PM (7/24/2008)
@ the other bob,
This is 3 successful Japanese companies doing a grant proposal.
Not 3 unsuccessful US companies needing help to play catch-up because of poor management.
There's a difference.
sw 2:59PM (7/24/2008)
It's not really fair to say because no official from a Japanese car company's ever said "We did it all without the help of the government".
I will say that until very recently, the big 3 squandered away their R&D focusing on behemothmobiles while the Japanese manufacturers maintained their core business (efficient and reliable cars).
ALL major manufacturers receive government grants and tax breaks, an organization would be stupid not to. Guess who makes the most efficient use of them? Can you imagine where GM would be if they properly utilized Lotus engineering across all of their vehicles instead of tossing them away.