Autoblog

No kidding! Say goodbye to their resale value! Hasta Lahonda

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Not sure about that.

They likely make more profit of a Civics vs a Fit, and the mileage difference is negligible for the consumer between the two.

For 2008 (according to fueleconomy.gov)

Fit (1.5L/manual): 27/34/30
Civic (1.8L/manual): 26/34/29

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What are you talking about? One plant will be idle 20% of the time while another works overtime.

If "modular manufacturing" existed, that Pilot plant would be building Civics on Fridays.

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Perhaps, but THIS Japanese company, unlike the Americans and other Japanese companies, hasn't focused three-quarters of its production and assembly on vehicles chasing profits, only to find that those same vehicles aren't very profitable right now.

I understand your point, but the Odyssey has been on the lots for years with just a minor refresh recently. The Pilot being brand new, was still designed around fuel efficiency (it IS Honda we're talking about), but the shift from SUVs in general doesn't make that readily apparent. The average American could give a crap about the environment because what's readily affecting them everyday is the gas prices, not how much CO2 is emitted. The only reason hybrids are selling is because people think they're saving all of this money, when the reality is, they're really not. For their purposes, smaller vehicles, like the Civic and Corolla are all that are necessary. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but it's not exactly like any of these vehicles built at this plants, domestic or otherwise, were drawn up 3 months ago.

That said, my point is simply Honda (and others) should've seen this coming 6 months ago and made arrangements then. This has little to do with the concept of "flexible manufacturing" itself, but rather when it was actually implemented.

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LS7
I like your comments generally and I respect your contribution to Autoblog, But can you please stop the BS and the CRAP you say about Honda's flexibility?????

I have told you time and time again that Honda is extremely flexible. Honda can go from Ridgeline to Civic in minutes. Can go from Odyssey to TL in minutes. Yet you still spread this garbage around that honda will idle workers and spend billions and months to retool from one to another.

I have personally seen the Honda plant in alliston have Ridgeline, Civic and Odyssey back to back to back on the same line!!!!!

I have also seen them clear the line and in minutes go to something else. Only backup is the suppliers sending parts but they are notified in advanced to be on alert. Whats the point of a flex plant if your suppliers arent flex.

Stop this crap.

Here are more sources for you. And stop coming back at me with Toyota and Tundra. I am not talking about POS Tundra. I am talking about Honda and I am talking about Honda in Alliston and Honda in Alabama. OK?????


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806200349


http://www.greensburgdailynews.com/honda/local_story_051095915.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_10_182/ai_94335260



http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=1ab0a3d6-d838-45c0-a4b0-d33594471a70

Please read the articles where they talk about back to back to back to back different vehicles on same line and also the words MINUTES and words NO EXTRA COST to go from Element to Civic.

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@johnny:
yep...seconded everything you said about Honda flex....seen it first hand. Tried telling LS that several months ago, and here he is sprouting his misconception again. Honda has had this system PLANNED and tweaked for decades, but really got it going in a big way within the last 10 years or so.

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You don't like me mentioning that Toyota decided to make the Tundra? On their own without GM or the UAW forcing them too? Is that it?

Fine. The Nissan Titan.

How about you read the article instead of coming up new ways to attack others.

'Honda will close its plant in Lincoln, Alabama for two days next month and cut second shift production at the plant every Friday in August through October. Displaced workers can choose to take either unpaid time off or use paid vacation leave.'

This plant will be partially idled. And the workers will not be paid. If the beliefs on here that Honda is more flexible than other manufacturers were true, Honda would have that plant and those workers making vehicles on those days instead of being idled. It doesn't make financial sense to drop a shift of workers at one plant, saving X dollars while paying workers at another plant time and a half (X*1.5 dollars) to work overtime.

The only reason Honda is doing it is because this stuff that Honda is ultra-flexible is a myth. Yes, they can adapt their plants over time to make different vehicles. And they will. But that takes changeover time, just like every other company. You somehow get confused and think because a Honda plant can make two cars at once (just like other companies' plants can), means it can switchover from one car in minutes. This is simply not true. If nothing else, it is a matter of logistics, getting parts in place. You saw a plant produce one vehicle one minute and another the next? Yes, but you didn't see the work ahead of time to make that possible. If you went into their plant tomorrow and said "make a Civic on this line right now", they couldn't switch it in minutes.

Yes, Honda has an easier time switching their plant from sedans to their truck, because their truck is unibody and on a similar platform to their cars. That was a vehicle design decision, nothing to do with plant flexibility.

I will not be changing my tune because of ridicule from those who don't understand the difference between simultaneous production and instantaneous changeover.

Ford Wannup:
I am not saying Honda has flex. I am saying everyone has flex. Every plant built recently has this, GM built an AGV plant in the 80s in Flint. I am also saying you guys greatly misunderstand what flexibility is. It is not changing plants over in minutes or days. In a sense, it is being able to change a plant over at all. Yes, Honda has this. Everyone has this and has done had it for decades.

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The Pilot is not terribly efficient. Honda made the same boo-boo everyone else did. Not as badly perhaps, but they weren't saints on this. They made a large, inefficient SUV, because they could make money on it, just like everyone else. And things changed and they got caught out, just like everyone else.

Honda, like every other company chased profit to extremes and ended up making vehicles that don't make sense with $4 gas (if they ever did at all).

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Minivans are far from finished. Neither is the Suburban. Or Jeep. Or even Hummer. They remain the most effective way to carry 5-7 people, or even 4 people with lots of stuff. Sales of EVERYING will shift around over the next 2-4 years. Those with most of their line-up on fwd architecture will be able to adapt the best, but everyone will be investing a lot of money to make the change. This investment is good in the long run. It's money spent in America, which is a good thing for the economy. What's good for the economy will eventually be good for everyone.

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Mon. AM - I did a weekend trip. 600 MI. 6 people. Lots of stuff. The Minivan will survive just fine thank you.

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