Jetta TDI = hotcakes, Tiguan, not so much
Despite the fact that Volkswagen's 2009 Jetta TDI sedan and Sportwagen cost more and have yet to get here, plus fuel prices in the five-dollar range, customer desire for the sparkless VeeDubs is running high. Perhaps buyers don't realize that these ain't the old Rabbit rattlers that cost three cents to run and would rack up a billion miles with five tanks of fuel. TDI maintenance costs are not insignificant, but the allure of inherent efficiency has folks putting their money where their mouths are and some dealers have sold out before even taking delivery. All in all, an auspicious start for the latest TDI Jetta. Not faring as well is the Tiguan, VW's smallest 'ute. While we find the Tiguan delightful to drive and well executed besides the smallish cargo area (Jetta Wagon FTW), the launch hasn't gone as swimmingly as Wolfsburg had hoped. Maybe the TDI powertrain could add some sales sparkle to the Tiguan. It would fit, being on basically the same platform as the Golf.
[Source: Automotive News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
why not the LS2LS7? 9:21PM (7/14/2008)
Wait. Tiguan is actually offered for sale and is being measured by sales. Where as TDi interest is being measured by asking people "would you buy that?"
Let's see how many people pony up the dough, then we can decide interest.
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CT-Jake 9:28PM (7/14/2008)
I just wanted to point out the part which says some dealers have sold out their allotments. Seems like people ARE putting their money where their mouths are.
tankd0g 11:27PM (7/14/2008)
Everyone wants a late model VW TDI until they speak to someone who has owned one in a cold climate.
"...more time on a hook than in my driveway."
pacerx 12:05AM (7/15/2008)
I have a co-worker (in Winnipeg, MB) who drives to work every day in a MKIV Jetta TDI. He doesn't have any problems with the engine in the extremely cold climate, except that it takes a very long time to get hot air in the cabin. Other than, it seems very reliable for him.
Xcountryflyer 11:38AM (7/15/2008)
Bring the Polo over, VW moron management.
icebox 12:36PM (7/15/2008)
Waited two years for the Tiguan, but VW chose to price the car almost 4K above a similar CRV, and no diesel. Love the driving dynamics of german cars, willing to put up with the lousy dealerships and the little problems, but good luck to VW on the sales at the price level they think I will pay for a Golf with a little more ground clearance and poore fuel mileage.
WOB-379 5:40PM (7/15/2008)
About diesel in a cold climate:
If you use winter mix that helps.
BUT
An engine block heater is the only way to be safer.
I have owned one in a very cold winter and even my gas engine will sputter from time to time.
Jon 9:26PM (7/14/2008)
Why not^, I have heard of people preordering the TDI (even though I don't think (?) there's official pricing yet).
Who cares about maintanance, it'll be an 09, meaning free VW maintenance. Sure that'll run out, that's why you gotta lease and reload ;)
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why not the LS2LS7? 9:32PM (7/14/2008)
Preordering isn't the same as buying. As you point out, it doesn't even have a price, so you can't pre-pay yet.
montoym 11:12PM (7/14/2008)
Pricing has been released, starts at $21,990.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/18/volkswagen-prices-jetta-tdi-from-21-990/
How can they not have pricing when the cars are already on their way to dealers? Many dealers already have demo models that have been used for customer test drives for a little while already.
Sam 9:25PM (7/14/2008)
My mom has a 2002 Jetta TDI with close to 200,000 miles on it. She has loved everything about, has had no significant mechanical issues and still gets 47-49 miles per gallon and near 600 miles per tank of fuel. I'm a big fan.
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why not the LS2LS7? 9:35PM (7/14/2008)
The internets (Jetta forums) say you can't hit 620 miles (1000km) per tank unless you drive 50mph on the highway. Is that not really true?
zamafir 10:26PM (7/14/2008)
you're correct ls7 (i have an 02) - you'll need to be very progressive on throttle, keep the rpms very low, and essentially cruise between 50 and 60 if you want to manage 50mpg.
Mike 10:55PM (7/14/2008)
Have had 2000 Beetle since new and now has 195,000 miles. Gets 46 mpg around town, 51 or so on the highway at 65 mph. Average has been consistent 49 mpg overall. I've done several highway only trips and pulled a max 810 miles on a tank..although I was on fumes at fill up! No plans to get rid of this anytime soon.
montoym 11:36PM (7/14/2008)
The range doesn't mean too much without the corresponding fuel tank size. An RV with a 300 gallon capacity going 620 miles isn't as impressive as a car with a significantly smaller tank.
I believe the TDI's have the same size tank as their gas counterparts. For the Mk4 platform, that means a 14.5 gallon tank. The fuel light will generally turn on with about 1.5gal. remaining. For me, I tend to put about 13-13.5gal. into my car when I fill up. I usually go a day or so with the fuel light on before actually stopping to fill up.
So, if you got 50mpg, times a 14 gallon fill-up equals 700 miles to a tank. That's not unheard of, but should not require driving at 50mph to attain. In fact, reading those same forums(VWVortex being the largest), most seem to be able to achieve mid to upper 40's even while doing 80mpg. Doing the math and assuming a 14gallon fill-up, a 620 mile range you mentioned equals 44mpg. I think many people would be quite happy with that as an average.
For the record, I tend to average about 28mpg between fill-ups and my car requires Premium fuel. So, if I could almost double my range(I get about 350miles between fill-ups now) while paying about 15% more for the fuel, that's a large net savings for me and I'd happily do it if I were in the market for a new car.
why not the LS2LS7? 12:21AM (7/15/2008)
You're not going to double mpg by just putting in an equivalent Diesel engine. You'd have to give up a fair bit of performance just to get to 50% better mpg.
montoym 12:24AM (7/15/2008)
Found some more mileage info. While VWVortex is the largest VW forum, TDIClub.com would be the best place for TDI-related stuff. They also have an entire section devoted to threads about fuel economy.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24
There are several threads dedicated to posts from people who have surpassed specific range goals(700mi/tank, 900mi/tank etc.) They also have a monthly MPG contest.
It's not limited to just Jetta owners though and there are several models of TDI's so the range again is related to the size of the fuel tank since Passats and Touaregs have larger tanks. Not to mention the other decades of TDI-powered vehicles VW has made over the years.
montoym 12:35AM (7/15/2008)
Quote from Why not the LS2LS7? - "You're not going to double mpg by just putting in an equivalent Diesel engine. You'd have to give up a fair bit of performance just to get to 50% better mpg."
Where was performance ever mentioned?
The same can be said of putting a less powerful engine into any vehicle. You may get increased mileage, but at the expense of performance. That said, the increased torque of a diesel engine makes a huge difference in driveability. This 2.0L has 33% more torque than my 1.8T powered car, which in itself is fairly torquey. I'm not expecting similar 0-60 times, nor should I. But, I challenge you to find another 140hp car for sale in the US which attains the mileage of the '09 TDI. The TDI is designed for economy, my GTI is designed with performance in mind.
So, what was your point?
why not the LS2LS7? 12:49AM (7/15/2008)
My point is if VW sold a crap-slow gas version of the Jetta in the US it would get better mpg too.
As to the Diesel having more torque, you're talking about torque at the shaft. This torque never makes it to the ground because the redline on the engine is low. This requires you to shift sooner to a higher gear and this takes away the torque you speak of.
Remember, torque at the wheels is what determines performance, and since Diesel cars perform so much worse, it indicates they are making a lot less torque at the wheels. Bragging about torque at the shaft is pointless.
People talk about the payback of paying more for a Diesel engine and for Diesel fuel per gallon, but saving money in the end because overall consumption is lower. But a smaller gas engine could probably provide similar savings without having to pay more (in fact less!) up front and per gallon.
There are few comparos that compare cars that have comparable performance between gas and Diesel to see which really is cheaper to run. One of the few I've seen was on Fifth Gear where they compared the BMW MINI Cooper S and BMW MINI Cooper D. The Cooper D only got 9% better fuel economy and didn't perform as well despite seeming like the engine was working much harder than the gas engine was in the other car.
montoym 1:27AM (7/15/2008)
Quote from why not the LS2LS7? - "There are few comparos that compare cars that have comparable performance between gas and Diesel to see which really is cheaper to run. One of the few I've seen was on Fifth Gear where they compared the BMW MINI Cooper S and BMW MINI Cooper D. The Cooper D only got 9% better fuel economy and didn't perform as well despite seeming like the engine was working much harder than the gas engine was in the other car." -
Being that they tested the diesel against the S model, I'd have to say I'd be surprised if the gas engine was working harder. I haven't seen that comparison though so I will comment no further.
The best comparison I've seen lately was from Edmunds where they tested 4 different vehicles, a Prius, an '05 Jetta TDI, a Ford Focus, and a Smart fortwo. The Focus and the Smart fulfill the gas engine part, with the Focus probably being closest to the Jetta since the Smart is so much smaller.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/126370/article.html
The Jetta soundly trounced the Focus in mileage and was better than the Smart all-around as well, only being worse(by 1.4mpg) in the city section. Over the course of the whole trip, the Jetta achieved almost 32% better mileage than the Focus.
It also compared very well against the Prius. Again, only being beaten in the city section. If it weren't for the higher cost of diesel, the Jetta would have come quite close to winning the comparison.
Either way, not a bad performance by a 3yr older vehicle using a reletively low-tech engine especially considering that the '09 is expected to be even more fuel efficient(if the EPA figures are any indication) and significantly more powerful as well.