Porsche, like every other automaker under the sun, is under pressure to produce vehicles with improved fuel efficiency that emits less CO2. The current 911 puts out 225 g/km of CO2, but Porsche believes that it can hack another 10 g/km off that figure with the implementation of start-stop technology on its flat-six engines. Not so fast, say Porschephiles. According to the automaker, buyers aren't fond of such a feature on their arse-engined performance machines. Porsche didn't cite the reasons behind consumer's reluctance, but a 10 g/km reduction doesn't seem like much in the overall product scheme of Porsche.During the launch of the 2009 911, CAR asked Porsche engineers what the CO2 limitations are of the current flat-six, and according to Thomas Wasserback, "it might be possible to produce a Boxster that emits 180 g/km, it would be difficult to engineer a 911 to produce 200." However, Porsche intents to maintain current performance levels, despite a possible reduction in engine output, by lessening equipment levels and making use of more lightweight materials and body shells. Interestingly, Porsche estimates that the new 911s equipped with the seven-speed PDK transmission, which increases fuel economy and decreases emissions, will account for 80-percent of all 2009 911s sold and could spell the end of the stick shift within five years. However, manual transmissions will remain standard on Porsche's 911 Turbo, GT2 and RS models due to the torque limitations of the PDK gearbox, but a stronger version of the 'box is in development, so expect to see dual-clutch technology on all those models in the coming years.
[Source: CAR]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JZeke @ Jun 24th 2008 12:49PM
While outwardly that is sad news, considering that most porsche's lives are rather pampered and consist of urban commuting rather than back-road blasting it makes sense.
However I hope that the "lesser" models (Cayman, Boxster) are allowed to continue with manuals. Porsche should try to keep at least one model line more visceral and mechanical.
AMcA @ Jun 24th 2008 8:59PM
PORSCHE CANNOT STOP BUILDING MANUALS.
Blasphemy.
Eddie @ Jun 24th 2008 12:50PM
I think it's about time that manual trans are more scarce on higher end exotic cars. Manual is way dated and a dual clutch is not only faster, but more fuel effiecient.
For all of those who say that a dual clutch is less fun... since when is going 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, regardless of shifting method, "boring?"
Pacman @ Jun 24th 2008 12:55PM
It not boring, but I would trade for a 4.0sec 0-60 and shift myself with a clutch. Personal preference. If I owned a Porsche I dont think I would give a %$#@ about a minor MPG difference between a standard and dual clutch system. What does work out o a few hundred bucks a year, at the very most? If it is b/c of the CO2 and the enviroment I was worried about I doubt I would even be in the Porsche store looking at a extra car as a toy.
Soul Shinobi @ Jun 24th 2008 12:56PM
I meant to respond to you, forgot to hit 'Reply;' please see below.
Big Slippery Wood @ Jun 24th 2008 1:01PM
So you see no difference between riding a rollercoaster and driving a car? If going fast quickly is your only criteria for fun this example is not so outlandish.
simianspeedster @ Jun 24th 2008 1:03PM
Yes, and 30 years from now, we may have GPS-guided cars that safely and efficiently drive themselves from location to location. That would represent progress in one sense (decreased traffic, reduced emissions, etc.), but's it would also represent regression (reduced freedom and driving enjoyment).
The quality of our interactions with automobiles should not be overlooked just because enjoyment can't be quantified in a 0-60 time or MPG rating. I'll drive a manual as long as I can!
-SimianSpeedster
rypt @ Jun 24th 2008 2:09PM
I think it's time auto was scarce imo. All cars should come with a manual and have two options/types: normal stick or smt controlled by paddles.
Eddie @ Jun 24th 2008 2:24PM
RE: rypt
All Cars? Who the hell would want a S600, Phantom or Maybach 62 with manual? That would be goofy.
Leo M. @ Jun 24th 2008 2:48PM
I've been living in Denmark for a year or so and I love the fact that 95% of cars here are manual. They do it to save money, and because they really don't care for Autoboxes. Most of Western Europe is like this. Although, in richer places like Switzerland, Hannover, Hamburg, the ratio is a little different. The Europeans are still way ahead of us (the U.S.) when it comes to the more enjoyable, and cheaper, 6-speed transmission :)
rypt @ Jun 24th 2008 3:54PM
Eddie, ok fine maybe not in those, but I wouldn't want one in the first place, unless I have someone else to drive me in one.
Michael D. @ Jun 24th 2008 12:54PM
Part of that report saddens me - I hope they don't decide to detune any products i.e., lessen power output. I hope my perception is wrong!
We don't need any throwbacks to the 70s & 80s and everything moving backward. Also, Porsche, like other upscale marques, are not about humility!
Patrick Austin @ Jun 24th 2008 1:20PM
You need to sort of reframe how you think about the malaise years of the 70's and early 80's, and government intervention in the auto industry. Forcing the automakers to deal with emissions and safety caused them to come up with _amazing_ technology. Yes, for a few years things were really bad, but eventually things got way better: modern fuel injection, improved aerodynamics, 100K mile reliability on motors, seat belts, airbags, stability control, etc. I, for one, am glad I don't have to fiddle with carbs or adjust valves every few thousand miles.
In this case, I suspect we'll see MUCH better Porsches emerging as a result of these efforts. How do you maintain performance while lowering emissions? You build a much lighter car with a more efficient engine. Smaller, lighter Porsches are always a good thing, IMO. :)
M @ Jun 25th 2008 1:10PM
wow, well said Patrick
Soul Shinobi @ Jun 24th 2008 12:55PM
It's entertaining to go fast, but it's truly rewarding to actually be part of the process. It's the difference between feeling that you're being moved quickly, to feeling that you've moved yourself quickly.
2004m3driver @ Jun 24th 2008 1:04PM
I see your point, but it is just a matter of taste. I personally grown out of having a manual in a car. It just becomes too much of a hassle after a while. Especially if you don't just take it out to the open road. That's why those manual guys hate my sequential manual gearbox. For that connection with a machine I ride my motorcycle. Not to mention manual in bikes are still faster :P
Soul Shinobi @ Jun 24th 2008 1:13PM
I understand you completely. There will always be people who want the rewarding feeling of driving stick in a car, but sometimes, I just don't feel like doing it myself, I just want a smooth ride from point A to point B. I still think I'll always have one car that's a manual myself, because I find just driving, as well as the techniques enjoyable and rewarding (heel-and-toe, left foot braking, etc.). However, not having to do things yourself can sometimes feel like a luxury, this I understand.
geo.stewart @ Jun 24th 2008 1:52PM
who are you fooling. because you depressed your left foot once or three times, you think you moved yourself quickly?
ATTENTION: couch potato logic at work here.
try getting up and running. THAT is moving yourself.
what you are talking about is ccordinating the actions of 4 appendages instead of three to direct a 2 ton piece of machinery to do thy bidding, requiring a minimum of physical effort from you the driver.
and dont by any stretch misinterpret my comments, I love a clutch so I can determine the torque amount when I am on the back country roads but to have to engage the clutch myself, meh, its nice but then the other 90% of the time I am in traffic stuck constantly shifting between two gears because the person in front of me is geared differently and sitting in their sweet spot.
Soul Shinobi @ Jun 24th 2008 2:03PM
Relax, it's relative in this context. Driving a manual is relatively more involving and therefore rewarding in some situations, I didn't say it was the be-all end-all reason for being alive. The pleasure from doing your own shift and clutch work isn't superficial as you imply, because the driver is physically connected to integral parts of the car, and is even integral to the car's function himself, more so than in a non-manual (auto shifting manual or fully automatic). Much of the pleasure is derived from the feeling that the driver and the car are working together to achieve something, rather than the car simply responding to input.
martin @ Jun 24th 2008 12:59PM
i cant see the problem with start-stop engines, its not like they are
going to switch off while you are driving round a corner or something.
its only when your stationary, whats the need for the engine to be on
then exactly, wether your driving a porsche or a focus