http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/ Autoblog Comments for http://www.autoblog.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.autoblog.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/May 1st 2008 12:51PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/May 1st 2008 12:56PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
no, that's entirely incorrect. yes, the G8 is a rebadged holden commodore. but that doesn't matter, because holden doesn't sell vehicles in the states.

It's the same as saying the lexus sc430 is a rebadged toyota soarer (which is the badge under which it's sold in Japan).

If you're rebadging for purposes of selling in a different country, it doesn't really matter. the problem is rebadging the same car and selling it under many different brands IN THE SAME MARKET. that is what they used to do, and what they aren't doing anymore.]]>May 1st 2008 1:03PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
It is completely unique in its market.]]>May 1st 2008 1:03PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/May 1st 2008 1:11PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/May 1st 2008 1:15PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
The G8 is straight out of Australia - 100% imported to the US, as is the G8 ST. American engineered engine, but Aussie platform and engine assembly is all done in Australia. The automatic transmission is assembled in Strasbourg, France and the manual in Queretaro, Mexico.

The G5 is a rebadged Cobalt, which is made in Ohio this year, but next year final production will be moved to Mexico. The manual transmission is assembled in Germany, and the auto is assembled in Canada. The engine was engineered in Germany.

The Solstice platform is a joint venture between US and German engineers. The manual transmission is made by Aisin in Japan, and the automatic is made in France. The engine was engineered in Germany.

The Torrent is a re-badge wet dream with tons of other cars. The V6 engine is assembled in China, and the 5 speed trans is assembled at Aisin in Japan. The 6 speed is assembled in Warren, MI, to their credit. Final assembly is in Canada at a joint owned GM-Suzuki factory.

The Vibe is half Toyota and speaks for itself. Engine is 100% Toyota, and trans mission is 100% Toyota. Both are assembled in Japan.

The only "American" Pontiac is the G6... until they move production of that (or its components) somewhere else.

Yeah - I know Pontiac pretty well.]]>May 1st 2008 1:23PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
Yup, Jason knows what is going on in the automotive world. He's an f'ing genius so everyone listen to him.]]>May 1st 2008 1:33PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
They can't make their mainstream market cars smaller, or even keep them the same size from model revision to model revision, or the ever-fattening auto reviewers and ever-fattening American public will complain that there's not sufficient room for their gut to fit under the steering wheel next to 8 cup holders full of Big Gulps and fries.

I own a TSX. It has plenty of room for my NORMAL sized self, for my normal sized wife, and my normal sized friends. I like getting good gas mileage in what the rest of the world calls a "mid" sized car.

Plus I can sleep well at night knowing that it's not any more "foreign" than a Pontiac.]]>May 1st 2008 1:38PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/May 1st 2008 1:40PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
I do take issue with the fact that they'll sell the cars to Americans as "American" when 90% of it isn't American at all. BUT - if anyone out there who knows better wants to blindly follow them and let themselves be lied to, then by all means...]]>May 1st 2008 1:41PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
That German engine you keep talking about is a world designed engine and it is assembled in NY. GM has owned Opel for closer to 100 hears than to 50. Um, the chief designers over at GM Europe have mostly been Americans.

The Solstice is assembled in Delaware and shipped to Europe.

If Americans gave a crap then GM would have the relative few (to most car companies) foreign parts as they do. Americans told GM loud and clear 30+ years ago they didn't care who or where about their cars.

Please, go look at Apples parts before you judge GM. I would love for every part of theirs to be made here personally but demand told supply they don't give an f.

PERIOD.]]>May 1st 2008 1:45PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
You mean 'were forced to sell it.' ... because they're doing so well right now.


"That German engine you keep talking about is a world designed engine and it is assembled in NY"

Money isn't in engine assembly. I have a friend who does factory automation in Auburn Hills, MI. He programs the robots that assemble and machine engines and engine parts. They turn on a robot, and let it go. Sure the robots cost a lot, but not as much as workers, and that's why they're there. The people who are getting baid BUCKS are the ones who are designing the engines... in the Ecotec's case, in Germany.

I don't care if GM owns them or not. The German engineers who designed the transmissions used with those engines, and the engines themselves, are the ones who are going home with fat paychecks in their pockets... and the American workers, who are either having their jobs replaced by robots, or whose jobs are being sent to Mexico, are the ones hurting.

I wish people would quit equating GM with America, but I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks after all.

"The Solstice is assembled in Delaware and shipped to Europe."

Assembly cost is a drop in the piss bucket compared to engineering. Pay American engineers to engineer it if you want to call it American.

Along your same logic... GM owns a lot of assembly facilities in Mexico. They should just assemble ALL of their cars there and take all of their factory jobs out of the US. That'd be ok too... because GM owns the factories, right?

"Please, go look at Apples parts before you judge GM"

Apple Computer? What are you talking about. How is that relevant at all?]]>May 1st 2008 1:54PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
You better lobby for the parts content stickers of all GM vehicles to read 10% or less then. Since you know all this.

It is a global world and GM is one of the last to really start using its global facilities. Like I stated, for several decades they owned Opel and didn't use them as much as they used American designs and Americans kept spitting in their faces.

Good to see that Toyota still declaring their headquarters in Japan as far as I know and Honda are just as American as GM which helped keep this country rolling for 100+ years. Yes, all those full size pickups that kept America building and expanding that came from Japan over the last 100 years sure were helpful.

What would we have done without Honda? But now that our Honda and Toyota saviors are here we surely couldn't go into a recession or depression with all the jobs they brought here. No, their 70K U.S. jobs total is sure better than GM's 600K total U.S. only employees that have been eroded.

But next time you get into your Acura think what you could have done to build an American car that everyone like you would love to drive and build more American than GM. An the billions you would have like Toyota has off of the U.S. market alone; otherwise, you are a failure. You failed. You lost an opportunity so prove and do it and get rich.

]]>May 1st 2008 1:56PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
Yeah, with probably thousands of parts in an engine I'm supposed to believe they turn on a robot and product the eco-tec engines. You just lost most of your credibility there. Sorry. Stupid statement.



"The people who are getting baid BUCKS are the ones who are designing the engines... in the Ecotec's case, in Germany.""

OK elitist, didn't Sam Walton teach you anything? Walton made more money than Tiffany every could dream of. Have more assemblers get paid a little less (and see the complaints on autoblog about how much union assemblers make) than a few designers will power a country as much as anything. Your view is that every American should make the big bucks or they don't count or we shouldn't care about their job?

I'll tell you what Apple has to do with it. If GM was anything like Apple every single part of GM's would be foreign made. I'm curious why the hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs GM supports and GM is a target of your "GM isn't very American" onslaught yet a company like Apple, you could spend a book writing about how their parts are from everywhere (i.e. like you did with Pontiac), that is, if you really cared where your parts came from.

My guess, since you really seem to care where parts and design are from, is that your Acura has less American design and parts than any given Pontiac. Probably including the so foreign G8. Again, GM has owned Holden for decades. I'm sure a few Americans have contributed over there.
]]>May 1st 2008 2:05PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
Have you ever actually built an engine? They're insanely simple.

If you think all of the engines in the world are hand assembled, I don't think you've got a right to be calling anyone stupid.

"Your view is that every American should make the big bucks or they don't count or we shouldn't care about their job?"

That's not what I'd like to see, but that's what's going to happen. Bottom line is that if you have some UAW worker who costs GM $75/hr after benefits, vs some guy in Mexico who costs them $25/hr after benefits, who do you think they're going to go with? I think you should take a trip back in to the 80s and ask GM about that when they started making assembly plants in Mexico.

GM isn't out to "better America" or provide welfare to the American worker... contrary to what most rednecks believe. GM is an enterprise, a business, and they're there to make money, plain and simple. If they can replace 100 workers with a robot that doesn't need to eat, take piss breaks, require health insurance, and take sick days to save money, then they'll do it. If they can save money by sending jobs to Mexico or Canada, then they'll do that too. Go ahead, call me a liar.

You still haven't specified which Apple you're talking about. If you're talking about Apple Computer - first off, I don't use a Mac, and second off, almost all computer parts for any computer manufacturer are made in Asia... so what's your point?

"My guess, since you really seem to care where parts and design are from, is that your Acura has less American design and parts than any given Pontiac."

There you go again... telling me in one reply that it doesn't matter when GM does it because it's a "world market" for them, but lambasing me for driving an Acura, which was engineered and built in Japan.

Difference is, I embrace a world market, but Acura doesn't lie to me and market their cars to me as "American," whereas GM does.]]>May 1st 2008 2:13PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
No, along my logic I want everything made in the U.S. that can be but to answer your question, what I am getting at is that GM owns the right to the technology and paid for it themselves which is a big difference than what say Westinghouse TVs are all about. Westinghouse has nothing great to sell beyond what any company can make for them. GM is not like that. GM owns the technology and can move G8 or Astra production to the U.S. if they are successes.

Huge difference between owning the foreign technology or not. Toyota bought an American engine parts manufacturer (Boyd's IIRC) and they helped get the cost of engine production down. All anyone knows is that Toyota can make cheaper engines now. Not that Boyd's didn't anything or that it was a foreigner to them that helped them out.

Owning the division or factory is like what would you rather have the opportunity to do, assemble ipods for Apple or have the patent to the ipod? If GM makes a ton of money off of Opel they can use that money to make better cars here and possibly not have to lay off any more workers. That is why it makes a difference.

I still choose an American assembled car from an American company but if I had the choice of a Japanese company with an Acura with no Acura (or Lexus for that matter) ever assembled here and an Opel owned by GM (and no cars were assembled here) then I'd choose the Opel.

Big difference. The dealer network that Pontiac supports is much larger than Acura too. Those are U.S. people with jobs because of Pontiac. Many more than Acura.

And if GM products are so poor think of all the money those Pontiac dealers *have* to be making off of fixes. And since Acuras never break down there must only be a few salespeople at every Acura dealership and now service guys at all.]]>May 1st 2008 2:21PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/maximum-bob-talks-about-invicta-and-how-not-to-rebadge-cars/
"You still haven't specified which Apple you're talking about. If you're talking about Apple Computer - first off, I don't use a Mac, and second off, almost all computer parts for any computer manufacturer are made in Asia... so what's your point?"

Yes, Apple Computers. You don't use a Pontiac either yet you took the time to tell us how foreign they are. And they are all about "Designed in California" and "Assembled in China". They are *your* perfect company. You stated how "Engineered in" is more important than "Assembled in" that is why they are so relevant.

As far as all computer parts made in Asia then since the norm is what we base what our American companies should be doing then GM is just making their parts more in line with what the Japanese and German vehicles sold here are made. All because the Camry or Accord are assembled here doesn't mean that as a whole Toyota or Honda parts are so much more American. GM is just making their cars more worldly like their competitors and like I stated, America approves of their things being from all over so it is hard to get upset.

But again, I will e-iterate why it is different if the Acura is from a Japanese company with Japanese parts then yes, GM owning a factory in Mexico is better in my opinion. Luckily I don't buy the products that are majority foreign even from GM.]]>May 1st 2008 2:40PM