Maximum Bob talks about Invicta and how not to rebadge cars
by John Neff on May 1st 2008 at 12:34PM 
Click above for high-res gallery of the Buick Invicta Concept
GM Vice Chairman Bob "Maximum" Lutz published a new post today on the corporate GM Fastlane Blog that addresses the automaker's newest concept that debuted recently at Auto China 2008 in Beijing: the Invicta. The concept heavily hints at what the next-generation Buick LaCrosse will look like, but Bob points out that the global architecture underpinning the vehicle will be the basis of new cars for Chevy, Saab, Opel/Vauxhall and more. In the past, we would've expected those accompanying models to be rebadged versions with different grilles, headlights and taillights, but Bob explains how GM's new global platform sharing process is different than the rebadging of old. In a nutshell, he says that the money saved from sharing common platforms see will be put into making everything that customer's will see - exterior and interior design, specifically - completely different. While it's great to hear Bob talk about how GM finally "gets it" when it comes to producing common products across an empire of brands, it's something that other automakers like VW/Audi have been doing for years while the General kept feeding us "triplets" of every model it made. So kudos to GM for finally getting it, but it took 'em long enough.
Gallery: Buick Invicta Concept
[Source: GM FastLane blog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Juan 12:41PM (5/01/2008)
The Invicta looks great and I'll be interested to see how the Chevy version will look... Looks like there is hope for the American automobile...
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Pluton 12:46PM (5/01/2008)
"In the past, we would've expected those accompanying models to be rebadged versions with different grilles, headlights and taillights, but Bob explains how GM's new global platform sharing process is different than the rebadging of old. In a nutshell..." -
"Bob points out that the global architecture underpinning the vehicle will be the basis of new cars for Chevy, Saab, Opel/Vauxhall and more. "
Nothing has changed.
ChopperDave 1:14PM (5/01/2008)
Pluton, there's a big difference between platform sharing and badge engineering. Would you say the Volvo S40 is a badge-engineered Mazda3?
Platform sharing is good. It saves money that can be spent on better exterior design, future R&D, safety, etc. Badge engineering is where merely a different nose and badge = "different" car.
Platform sharing = Pontiac G6 / Saab 9-3
Badge engineering = Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5.
Let's hope Maxium Bob keeps his word.
fawgcutter 1:14PM (5/01/2008)
It's on the next gen Epsilon platform, the current one is called Malibu
Luis 12:46PM (5/01/2008)
These are the cars that are going to make a change. This will definitely make some take a look at Buick. Very nice.
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Jason 12:51PM (5/01/2008)
Um... has he seen Pontiac?
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Dude 12:56PM (5/01/2008)
Agreed. The G8 is exactly what he said they are going to stop doing.
rsfourever 1:03PM (5/01/2008)
"The G8 is exactly what he said they are going to stop doing."
no, that's entirely incorrect. yes, the G8 is a rebadged holden commodore. but that doesn't matter, because holden doesn't sell vehicles in the states.
It's the same as saying the lexus sc430 is a rebadged toyota soarer (which is the badge under which it's sold in Japan).
If you're rebadging for purposes of selling in a different country, it doesn't really matter. the problem is rebadging the same car and selling it under many different brands IN THE SAME MARKET. that is what they used to do, and what they aren't doing anymore.
jgp 1:03PM (5/01/2008)
The G8 is not a rebadge in any way, shape, or form.
It is completely unique in its market.
Brill 1:11PM (5/01/2008)
i don't see a problem with what GM did with the G8 as long as its the only version sold in the area. i'll 100% agree examples like the old S-10 and GMC small trucks were an example of being really lazy and not trying. that happened alot over the years with GM in cars/trucks/suv/mini vans and so on, but i think they are make strides in that respect.
Torrent 1:15PM (5/01/2008)
Yeah he's seen Pontiac. Have you? Pontiac is like the Number 2 seller in the GM segment.
Jason 1:23PM (5/01/2008)
Yeah - I've seen Pontiac as well.
The G8 is straight out of Australia - 100% imported to the US, as is the G8 ST. American engineered engine, but Aussie platform and engine assembly is all done in Australia. The automatic transmission is assembled in Strasbourg, France and the manual in Queretaro, Mexico.
The G5 is a rebadged Cobalt, which is made in Ohio this year, but next year final production will be moved to Mexico. The manual transmission is assembled in Germany, and the auto is assembled in Canada. The engine was engineered in Germany.
The Solstice platform is a joint venture between US and German engineers. The manual transmission is made by Aisin in Japan, and the automatic is made in France. The engine was engineered in Germany.
The Torrent is a re-badge wet dream with tons of other cars. The V6 engine is assembled in China, and the 5 speed trans is assembled at Aisin in Japan. The 6 speed is assembled in Warren, MI, to their credit. Final assembly is in Canada at a joint owned GM-Suzuki factory.
The Vibe is half Toyota and speaks for itself. Engine is 100% Toyota, and trans mission is 100% Toyota. Both are assembled in Japan.
The only "American" Pontiac is the G6... until they move production of that (or its components) somewhere else.
Yeah - I know Pontiac pretty well.
Lithous 1:33PM (5/01/2008)
No, he's right. It is much better if you do what honda does and sells a car as the Accord in the rest of the world but in the largest market sell the same car as an Acura for thousands more.
Yup, Jason knows what is going on in the automotive world. He's an f'ing genius so everyone listen to him.
Jason 1:38PM (5/01/2008)
Honda can't sell the Euro/Jap Accord as an "Accord" in the US because it's too small. The "mid-sized" car segment is becoming BIGGER in the US because Americans are FATTER than the rest of the world.
They can't make their mainstream market cars smaller, or even keep them the same size from model revision to model revision, or the ever-fattening auto reviewers and ever-fattening American public will complain that there's not sufficient room for their gut to fit under the steering wheel next to 8 cup holders full of Big Gulps and fries.
I own a TSX. It has plenty of room for my NORMAL sized self, for my normal sized wife, and my normal sized friends. I like getting good gas mileage in what the rest of the world calls a "mid" sized car.
Plus I can sleep well at night knowing that it's not any more "foreign" than a Pontiac.
tanooki2003 1:40PM (5/01/2008)
Open your eyes jgp. The G8 IS a rebadged Holden Commodore imported directly from Australia, just like the former GTO which was a rebadged Holden Monaro, also from Australia.
Jason 1:41PM (5/01/2008)
PS - I don't take issue with the G8 at all. It's a good looking car and has more power for the dollar than pretty much anything out there. I also don't take issue of the fact that it's a re-badge of a car that we wouldn't otherwise get here. I think more "domestic" car makers should do that - including Ford with the Euro Focus vs the POS one we get.
I do take issue with the fact that they'll sell the cars to Americans as "American" when 90% of it isn't American at all. BUT - if anyone out there who knows better wants to blindly follow them and let themselves be lied to, then by all means...
Lithous 1:45PM (5/01/2008)
Yup, and all the foreign "help" on the Pontiac vehicles except the Toyota Vibe are GM owned (for many years) facilities. Or at least a stake in like GM had with Suzuki before they sold it.
That German engine you keep talking about is a world designed engine and it is assembled in NY. GM has owned Opel for closer to 100 hears than to 50. Um, the chief designers over at GM Europe have mostly been Americans.
The Solstice is assembled in Delaware and shipped to Europe.
If Americans gave a crap then GM would have the relative few (to most car companies) foreign parts as they do. Americans told GM loud and clear 30+ years ago they didn't care who or where about their cars.
Please, go look at Apples parts before you judge GM. I would love for every part of theirs to be made here personally but demand told supply they don't give an f.
PERIOD.
Jason 1:54PM (5/01/2008)
"Or at least a stake in like GM had with Suzuki before they sold it."
You mean 'were forced to sell it.' ... because they're doing so well right now.
"That German engine you keep talking about is a world designed engine and it is assembled in NY"
Money isn't in engine assembly. I have a friend who does factory automation in Auburn Hills, MI. He programs the robots that assemble and machine engines and engine parts. They turn on a robot, and let it go. Sure the robots cost a lot, but not as much as workers, and that's why they're there. The people who are getting baid BUCKS are the ones who are designing the engines... in the Ecotec's case, in Germany.
I don't care if GM owns them or not. The German engineers who designed the transmissions used with those engines, and the engines themselves, are the ones who are going home with fat paychecks in their pockets... and the American workers, who are either having their jobs replaced by robots, or whose jobs are being sent to Mexico, are the ones hurting.
I wish people would quit equating GM with America, but I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks after all.
"The Solstice is assembled in Delaware and shipped to Europe."
Assembly cost is a drop in the piss bucket compared to engineering. Pay American engineers to engineer it if you want to call it American.
Along your same logic... GM owns a lot of assembly facilities in Mexico. They should just assemble ALL of their cars there and take all of their factory jobs out of the US. That'd be ok too... because GM owns the factories, right?
"Please, go look at Apples parts before you judge GM"
Apple Computer? What are you talking about. How is that relevant at all?
Lithous 1:56PM (5/01/2008)
"I do take issue with the fact that they'll sell the cars to Americans as "American" when 90% of it isn't American at all."
You better lobby for the parts content stickers of all GM vehicles to read 10% or less then. Since you know all this.
It is a global world and GM is one of the last to really start using its global facilities. Like I stated, for several decades they owned Opel and didn't use them as much as they used American designs and Americans kept spitting in their faces.
Good to see that Toyota still declaring their headquarters in Japan as far as I know and Honda are just as American as GM which helped keep this country rolling for 100+ years. Yes, all those full size pickups that kept America building and expanding that came from Japan over the last 100 years sure were helpful.
What would we have done without Honda? But now that our Honda and Toyota saviors are here we surely couldn't go into a recession or depression with all the jobs they brought here. No, their 70K U.S. jobs total is sure better than GM's 600K total U.S. only employees that have been eroded.
But next time you get into your Acura think what you could have done to build an American car that everyone like you would love to drive and build more American than GM. An the billions you would have like Toyota has off of the U.S. market alone; otherwise, you are a failure. You failed. You lost an opportunity so prove and do it and get rich.
Lithous 2:05PM (5/01/2008)
"Money isn't in engine assembly. I have a friend who does factory automation in Auburn Hills, MI. He programs the robots that assemble and machine engines and engine parts. They turn on a robot, and let it go. Sure the robots cost a lot, but not as much as workers, and that's why they're there. The people who are getting baid BUCKS are the ones who are designing the engines... in the Ecotec's case, in Germany."
Yeah, with probably thousands of parts in an engine I'm supposed to believe they turn on a robot and product the eco-tec engines. You just lost most of your credibility there. Sorry. Stupid statement.
"The people who are getting baid BUCKS are the ones who are designing the engines... in the Ecotec's case, in Germany.""
OK elitist, didn't Sam Walton teach you anything? Walton made more money than Tiffany every could dream of. Have more assemblers get paid a little less (and see the complaints on autoblog about how much union assemblers make) than a few designers will power a country as much as anything. Your view is that every American should make the big bucks or they don't count or we shouldn't care about their job?
I'll tell you what Apple has to do with it. If GM was anything like Apple every single part of GM's would be foreign made. I'm curious why the hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs GM supports and GM is a target of your "GM isn't very American" onslaught yet a company like Apple, you could spend a book writing about how their parts are from everywhere (i.e. like you did with Pontiac), that is, if you really cared where your parts came from.
My guess, since you really seem to care where parts and design are from, is that your Acura has less American design and parts than any given Pontiac. Probably including the so foreign G8. Again, GM has owned Holden for decades. I'm sure a few Americans have contributed over there.