Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Green, Tech, Chevrolet, GM
GM considering all-electric Volt to meet Cali requirements? How about no battery?
The hopes and dreams of electric car aficionados for a purely battery powered successor to the late, lamented EV1 may soon be satisfied. Or not. It all depends on ... you guessed it, the battery. However, the latest utterings from Maximum Bob have people buzzing again. Mr. Lutz spoke to EV site PetroZero the other day and intimated that a purely battery-powered variant of the upcoming Volt is a possibility, leaving the range extender on the cutting room floor. This is actually not a new idea and dates back to the earliest dates of the Volt program. During a media briefing back in December 2006 several weeks before the Volt's public release, the Volt team showed us images like the one above that included several different powertrain configurations. The premise was to demonstrate the flexibility part of E-Flex. This included a variant with a larger battery and no engine to charge it. This pure EV was described as something that could be built if and when the range and more importantly the cost of the battery reaches a point where it could be successful in the market. Ditching the battery. on the other hand, won't happen because the inefficiencies inherent in transforming from mechanical to electrical to mechanical power without a battery to store regen energy and grid power just wouldn't make sense.
Finally, the PetroZero article indicates that Lutz will be driving the first Volt prototype within the next week. Lutz's use of the word prototype rather than mule led the author to believe this was an actual car with Volt bodywork. We checked with GM's Rob Peterson, who confirmed that such actual prototypes are still many months away and Lutz would actually be driving the Malibu-bodied mule that is now running with a lithium ion pack installed.
[Source: PetroZero via AutoblogGreen]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Murph11 10:45AM (4/27/2008)
"We'll be able to produce an all-electric vehicle when the economics and tech comes together. In other words, when pigs fly or the median income in the U.S. reaches $85,000 annual."
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lad 2:18PM (4/27/2008)
Currently Denmark and Israel are implementing projects to switch both countries over to Solar energy and BEVs within ten years. Renault and Nissan will supply the autos; their electric grid will be extended to include a receptacle at every place there is a parking spot so that cars are always charging when standing still and I think the design includes V2G storage. The future is being implemented as you declare it's not going to happen.
Other countries are not being hamstrung by a Lobbyist run government that slows down innovation like the U.S.
See: http://www.projectbetterplace.com/
Egisto Soldi 11:08AM (4/27/2008)
Mah... for me electric car is a marvellous utopia: no possible. Future is hybrid. We need an electric motor for hybrid only:
http://mondoauto.blogosfere.it/2008/04/auto-elettrica-una-dolce-utopia.html
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Das Boese 11:41AM (4/27/2008)
Really. Just like that ridiculous idea of a personal computer. There are even crazy nutjobs that think that one day, there may be a version that people can take around with them. Laughable! The batteries to power such a thing would weigh tons! And nobody has yet managed to fabricate vacuum tubes small enough! The craziest, most out there lunatics have even proposed to use them for a sort of world-wide communication network, where it is clear that such a thing could never be realized, just look at the cost of a telegraph from London to New York!
Or those portable telephone things. Utopia, I say. Even if they manage to build such a thing, it would be much too expensive for the common man, and much too heavy to carry around!
.... 10:56AM (4/29/2008)
at das..
nice haha
Reader 12:00PM (4/27/2008)
The present, and soon enough the past, is hybrid. Improvement in battery technology, and hopefully capacitors, will make all-electric vehicles an affordable reality.
Das Boese 11:25AM (4/27/2008)
It really makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Right now, battery tech just isn't far enough ahead, but with all the development on this sector lately, the second generation or mid-cycle update of the volt will probably include an all-electric model, ideal to be sold as a cheap entry model for mostly urban driving/commuting while the range-extended version is for those that want or need more range, for example in remote rural areas.
Stick an onboard quick charge module in it and you probably won't even have a problem with the range/charge time, provided you can find an industrial three-phase outlet. Shouldn't be too hard, seeing as most gas stations/workshops have one anyway, so it's a simple matter of installing a socket outside and hooking up an energy meter, something that can be done in a single afternoon and costs a couple hundred bucks at most.
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Gardiner Westbound 11:35AM (4/27/2008)
"Lutz's use of the word prototype rather than mule led the author to believe this was an actual car with Volt bodywork. We checked with GM's Rob Peterson, who confirmed that such actual prototypes are still many months away and Lutz would actually be driving the Malibu-bodied mule that is now running with a lithium ion pack installed. "
TTAC calls that a "Lutzie".
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FThorn 7:22AM (4/28/2008)
Ahhh, isn't that cute? TTAC has pet names for things, just like children have pet names for things. Fitting.
Brent 12:23PM (4/27/2008)
I want an electric car with solar panels integrated into the roof and other body parts. Then I could get an extra mile or two out of the car! :)
I know this has nothing to do with the article but...
Wouldn't solar panels on electric cars help a lot? You drive 30 miles to work (range of 40) and then you park in the sun for 8 hours. Couldn't you make it home without plugging it in?
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Dave B 12:39PM (4/27/2008)
I'm sure eventually that is a possibility, but it's not going to happen for a long time. There is a company that makes solar panels using printing machines that news papers use. If that company struck a deal with an auto maker then we could see solar panels on cars in about 10 years..i hope.
Shawn 12:47PM (4/27/2008)
30 miles on solar panels on your car with 8 hours charge time? Not even close. It won't be able to even power your A/C for your drive home. Solar doesn't make sense for cars because it is too expensive, it will never be able to pay for itself in the life of a car, and any damage to it would cost a lot to repair. However, it makes a lot of sense for your home if you live in a sunny area.
moguro 12:50PM (4/27/2008)
There already is the Zap Xebra Xero Solar.
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-xero-solar-option
MoonRover 2:21PM (4/27/2008)
And on days when it's cloudy, just work a double shift, wheeeeeeeeeeeee!
LaughingTooHard 6:32PM (4/27/2008)
Shawn,
Don't apply for any jobs that require facts or math - you are obviously ill-equipped and under-qualified.
First let's cover the cost: PV panels are pretty durable and even if you ignore that, a high efficiency 60x30" panel is $800. That would be about $2.5K to cover the hood, roof and trunk of a Volt. Any idea how much the replacement cost of the hood, roof and trunk on a $35K car?
On onto the A/C crack: Even with todays modest performing 210w panels and figuring about 2800-3000 square inches of space on hood, roof and trunk the Volt, you COULD manage over 5Kw of free PV power for an 8 hour sit in the sun. That would be good for just over 13 miles of range recovery.
Now for the pay for itself part: $2400 over even a 5 year life span is about $1.25/day. Feel free to divide further for more realistic life spans of 10, 15 or 20 years.
A 30mpg car at $4/gallon uses about $.12 of gas per mile. 13 miles of PV range/day puts payback at 3.8 years. Seeing a trend here?
With panels moving upwards in efficiency, that will only get better and cheaper. Never mind that the sun shines for longer than 8 hours some days - silly details.
Do I need to continue? I am not saying it would not be cheap or totally reliable but um yeah, based on the facts, saying you are wrong is quite an understatement.
Given I wouldn't try to get these numbers in Seattle or western NY/PA and the installed costs could be higher but either way it is very much possible.
Thanks for playing, here’s your sign.
Shawn 9:51AM (4/28/2008)
LaughingTooHard, real world is a lot different than a theory, but don’t let that stop you.
Do you drive a big flat car that automatically tilts itself towards the sun for 8 hours? Since you’re the expert, I guess you also calculated the energy loss between collection and storage. I mean, seriously? 8 hours of direct sunlight? You also forget to calculate how much a/c will burn on full blast on a hot day, the stop and go traffic (with the a/c still running), and your stereo system blasting REM’s It's The End of the World As We Know it because you had a long day at work and just want to chill.
As for the cost, each model of the car would need custom set of solar panels to achieve the 3000 sq in coverage that you stated. Since you are a solar panel expert, you probably already know all solar panels, even thin film solar cell, come in premade flat rectangles. (Yeah even thin film still needs to be customed). The complex shapes of the car would make the cost of your 3000 sq in the most expensive solar panels ever made.
It isn't just because you're so smart and the rest of us are so stupid...There are reasons why production cars don't have 3000 sq in of solar panels.
Stuka 12:29PM (4/27/2008)
Speaking of EV-1's, I saw one a few weeks back in SF (driving). I thought they had all been destroyed?
Hopefully some of the other auto makers follow in GM's foot steps are start serious research on an all electric car.
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Ken 12:48PM (4/27/2008)
A little OT, while I am not a fan of hybrids (give me a diesel Benz with a stick!!!), I get the impression GM knows a storm is coming, and this car (not the one in the article, but the 'normal' gas/electric Volt) may save the company, and to that extent, the American Auto Industry (if this works, you can bet Ford and Chrysler will be on board with their own, no matter the cost).
The Big Three dream of having a car that sells for MSRP (or above), that is produced in quantity, and meets/exceeds the CAFE and other requirements.
I think GM is too deep into this program to walk away, and to that extent, they cannot walk away if they want to survive. The Aveo is not going to save GM, a revolutionary, desirable, profitable product that sells millions, is.
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spw 1:34PM (4/27/2008)
and the saga of 2015 Chevy Volt continues...
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John Starnes 2:23PM (4/27/2008)
Has GM forgotten about/abandoned its revolutionary "skateboard" fuel cell car program that could RE-INVENT the car from scratch and let them leap frog ALL their competitors? I loved the 'Hi-Wire' model...some good video about it on YouTube. I dearly hope that GM is secretly working to bring it to the market pronto!
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