Nothing like bring over a beast when gas will be $4+ a gallon...

well i guess people that can afford it can afford that but still.

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The Polo got the same treatment as the Scirocco. VWoA decided for us that we don't want them here. I love both of these cars, and I think they could have brought a few limited editions over.

I would gladly drive a nice diesel luxury sedan. VW should have some out this year. I want to know how long before I can buy my V6 TDI A8L. Worst case I will buy the engine and install it myself. Anyone know were I can get a V6TDI?

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I think VW's problem is that this is as luxurious as the A8, so I wouln't mind if they converted Audi to RWD and left VW FWD

I can see some nice changes to Audi with RWD, too bad they have to keep going with the 60% weight up front and powering the fronts otherwise they'd be in my shoping list

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Can someone tell me why they'll release this but not the Scirocco? How is this any different? We've got a million big land yachts like this, yet VW thinks bring one hatchback (the Scirocco) is too many and will compete with the GTI!? What kind of failed logic is that!?

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Fantastically engineered car? Um, no. This pig weighs at least 600 pounds more than an S-class or 7-series. It is grotesquely overweight, and that has huge impacts on acceleration, cornering, braking, and fuel efficiency.

It is typical VW. Overly complex. Poor reliability.

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I hate to repeat the obvious, but it's not always badge consciousness in a snotty way, it may be badge consciousness in a way people like me have become familiar with poor reliability of VW's. If I knew the phaeton had the reliability of a Honda or Toyota, I would have considered buying one when they were trying to get them off dealer lots in the last run (they look slick, have good gadgetry, have good power, probably are safe and have a very comfy ride); but, I had the blessing of owning a 96 Jetta that starting falling apart on me around 60K miles. Maybe if VW worked on reliability first, they could start doing things like coming out with expensive cars.

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Yeah, because getting 3mpg less than an equivalently engined A8 is utterly calamitous.I've also averaged 36mpg over 750 miles at an average speed of 78mph in a Phaeton and after a few stops from 130 on the autobahn I can assure you its braking is absolutely fine.

The reason it weighs more than its competitors is that the chassis is much stiffer than any of them which leads to a smoother ride and greater safety. Compared to the A8 I drove, the Phaeton has a smoother ride and a quieter, nicer interior.

After 3 years and 32,000 miles the only thing that's gone wrong was a flat battery.

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What bizarro land do you live in where people buy $80,000 full size luxury boats for their cornering and fuel efficiency?

36 mpg at 80 doesn't pass the smell test though. Few compact cars will do so well.

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36mpg imperial I'd assume.
c. 28mpg US. Passes the smell test for me. My girlfriend's C320 is rated at 26mpg hwy. With cruise on and A/C at 80mph on 5 freeway, c. 30mpg US. With the A/C off, I've seen it average 34 mpg at 70mph over a distance of 90 miles.

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so, here is mgmt's mostly legitimate thinking.

The US has NO problem with a 30K discrepancy betwee nthe A6 and the A8.

The US has very little if any problem with the Passat being roughly 8K less than the comparable A6

Why the heck should they have a problem with a A8-sized VW that is 30K more than the Passat and roughly 8-10K less than the A8?

Looked at in that vein, the Phaeton should not be a stretch. The problem is the dichotomy in VW, that they want to offer a step on luxury toes and still be a peoples car. The US is one or the other. Nobody is going to pay 60K for a Chevy (outside the vette) and that is truly how the US is looking at it. yes VW commands a premium but not that. The US will jump all over a 45K VW that is A8 sized and walks out at 50.

But VW is looking at it logically and not from a user perspective.

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Which is why VW needs to bring Skoda to the US.

In Europe, Skoda is the people's car, VW is a cut above the average brand, and Audi is the full luxury brand.

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"This really smacks of arrogance...Basically par for the course for a German car company, really"

Lumping BMW and Mercedes into the same boat as VW is completely unwarranted. BMW and Mercedes have each had a few odd models that didn't go over well in the last decade (which big auto company hasn't?) but they don't suffer from the same dellusional hubris and over-eager status climber issues that VW continues to exhibit in the U.S. with $40K Passats and $60-70K Phaetons.

-SimianSpeedster

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I'm not sure. I think Mercedes in particular has shown about as much hubris (though not quite as much delusion) as VW has. There's an insistence by German automakers that they know what the customer needs better than the customer does. You'll see this with the occasional off-the-wall product that completely falls flat, yet oddly is not withdrawn or adjusted.

Think R-Class. Or the sheer number of models. Or the trainwrecking of Chrysler, that one's paramount.

BMW doesn't quite step off into the deep end as much; the closest they've come was the 7-Series last restyle, and it's been interesting watching them back off that styling exercise, ending with the very conservative update to the 3-Series. I suspect it's because BMW is still fairly small.

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I think Mercedes and BMW generally know the value of moving their product lines upstream in lockstep, introducing new niche products to fill in gaps along the way. They also recognize the importance of building cars in the U.S. to keep costs manageable as the dollar crumbles. VW has been terrible at both over the last 10+ years.

For example, as the 3 Series has climbed in price, BMW has made room for the 1 Series in their line-up. VW, on the other hand, has shown no movement towards selling the Polo in America to compete with the Honda Fit, etc. when all indications point to VW needing a solid $14,000 car in their line-up.

Cars like the MB R-Class and BMW's Z line aren't meeting sales expectations, but they aren't nearly the failure that the Phaeton was (and will be again if they bring it back) because the Phaeton was a complete "shoot for the moon" idea with no basis in reality given VW's buyer demographics. PURE hubris.

Regarding BMW's styling -- I agree that they have taken chances, but it hasn't cost them in sales. The ugly (IMO) current 5 and 7 Series are consistently outselling the elegant last generation 5 and 7 Series, so who can blame them? Objectively, they're succeeding even if they're not universally liked. Many people buy them because they look so different.

I think we're talking matters of degree. Every company makes mistakes, but VW is making gigantic mistakes and repeatedly so. At the end of the day, it comes down to sales and profits. Unlike BMW which has done *extremely* well in the U.S. over the last 10 years and MB which has done pretty well, VW's sales have gone down significantly over the last decade. From 2002 to 2007, VW sales plummeted from 338,000 to 235,000 in the U.S. Yikes. Another Phaeton will only hurt them further.

-SimianSpeedster

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