Autoblog

I agree... I'd love it if they didn't ruin the front where the front fenders on the sides come forward, pass the front grill.

It look great.... but ehh.... the front part kinda killed for me.

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I doubt it would take the sales of the Jeep but it probably would slaughter the Hummer in the States!

Agreed, I am also in love!

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@ Brett No it would not be taking sales from Hummer since a person who would buy a 5 passenger H3 would not be shopping for a 2 passenger Land Rover. I see this would attract Jeep Wrangler buyers looking for something a lot more civilized and luxurious. Not something Land Rover defenders are known for but you know, it's a Land Rover.

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Land Rover is convinced that they couldn't make money selling the Defender in the US. I don't know if I agree with that but they have done studies saying it would not be profitable. Keep in mind that all that changes with Tata buying the company.

The Defender will have to be redesigned to be sold in the US in order to meet crash and emission standards. The Defender will have to be redesigned soon anyway since it is mostly hand built and the hand built process is very expensive. The Defender line was automated some recently but the build process is still labor intensive.

Land Rover makes 10 different versions of the Defender counting the SVX and not counting the numerous custom versions for commercial or military use. The D90 Station wagon seats four. The person looking at a H3 might be more interested in the D110 Station wagon that can seat seven or the D110 hardtop that can seat five.

Someone looking at a H2 or H2 SUT might be interested in a D110 double cab or maybe even a D130 double cab. Those Defenders would also do fairly well as half ton double cab pickup replacements.

http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender07/Models/model_comparison.htm

Check out all the specs at the Land Rover site. The Defender is essentially the F150 of Europe.

The last episode of fifth gear this year had an interesting test of a H3 for the mountain rescue division in Wales IIRC. They normally use specially prepared D110s and the H3 was seen as a possible supplement do the Defenders. The H3 did not fare well in the test and just couldn't do the things the D110 could.

The two biggest problems were the poor visibility and poor interior space relative to the overall size. The H3 seats fewer people and holds less cargo then the D110 but the D110 is five inches shorter. The defender is also four inches narrower.

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British Rover: I just watched that clip of Fifth Gear you mentioned, and my stomach turned. I've never seen more nonsense from a more ignorant bunch of wannabe automotive experts. The bias towards a british brand is evident, and I knew the conclusion from the moment they started speaking.

First of all, their "test" was a joke, that wouldn't even classify as a beginner course in any offroad park in the US, and with enough people putting H3's through some of the most difficult trails out there, in stock form, and it passing with flying colors, anybody doubting the H3's capabilities or comparing it to other "SUV's" doesn't understand much about offroading. I won't even touch their comment on "better built" vehicles out there, considering the H3 is one of the best built and strongest 4x4's out there. This just proves that the Fifth Gear episode was designed around one purpose, no matter how well the H3 does, the Land Rover would beat it. Funny how they never even had a Land Rover there to compare to? I haven't seen nonsense like this in a long time.

Lets get some facts straight about the H3 vs D90:

Tire Size:
The H3 can fit a 35" tire with no lift required. No other truck can do this, other than the H2 (H2 can go to a 37")

The D90 can only fit a 31" tire.

Water Fording:
The H3 is rated at 24" (26" with a 35" tire, and people do more with no issues)
The D90 is only rated at 20"

Locking Diffs:
H3 currently has a rear locker, soon available will be a front locker.

D90, I see no talk of lockers at all on their website, surprisingly. I can't believe this.

Electronic Traction Control:
Standard on all H3's, provides power to wheel with most traction.

OPTIONAL on all Defender models, OPTIONAL!?


The ONLY thing that the D90 has over the H3 is a slightly better approach and departure angle at 47 degrees for both (and on the 110 and 130 their departure angle goes down to 35 degrees) and a ground clearance of 10".
An H3 with 35" tires has a ground clearance of 10.1 inches, an approach angle of 41 degrees, and a departure angle of 38 degrees.
One thing that the D90 really has an issue with in the departure angle is that the muffler hangs right behind the rear tire, lower than the bumper. Anyone who's done any rock crawling understands how bad a design flaw this is. The H3 has the muffler up into the body above the rear bumper line, so no damage can occur to it when crawling off a rock.

That episode was nonsense, they didn't touch the features or capabilities of the H3, just designed to knock an American product. I find it amusing when those who understand nothing about offroading start mouthing off on which vehicle is best, it truly shows their ignorance.

Here's an idea, if any of you brain cell challenged over at Fifth Gear might be reading this, take a stock H3, and a stock D90 to Moab, and go at it, with a true test, with both vehicles. Maybe try the Rubicon, or some good ol' fashioned mudding.

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4x4north: are you seeing anyone?

just kidding buddy. i too have blasted the euro shows for unnecessarily trashing the better american products like the Z06 by squaring it off against a $192k porsche gt2 on a post last week then trashing it.
i saw that fifth gear episode and closed it waaaay before it got to that segment.

has anybody there read LR's reliability ratings? just flat out garbage. just because its expensive doesn't mean its any good, they should look at their brothers over at jaguar.

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4x4north is dead-on. The H3 is an incredible off-road machine.
For example:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/HUMMER-H3-Alpha-tackles-Moab-Hells-Revenge-ESCALA_155581.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/HUMMERS-climb-Utahs-Hells-Revenge_156057.htm

British car shows have always been excruciatingly biased against the Hummer brand. I remember when Top Gear compared the H2, Escalade, and a Range Rover in an off-road competition. Close to the finish line, the H2 mysteriously died of "altitude sickness". In other words, the Hummer was winning, so Clarkson told the driver to stop.

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4x4 come on you know what you wrote is BS.

I didn't say the H3 was worse then the Defender off-road, even though it is, I wrote that the H3 was not suited to the mountain rescue Job that it was trying out for. The H3 has less interior space with a larger exterior foot print then the Defender so it is more difficult to transport someone out of the mountains. Also even the biggest H3 fan boy can admit that visibility sucks out of all the hummers.

That is the point of the fifth gear video.

As to your other points the Defender is a diesel it can ford a lot more then 20 inches. Land Rover has always been very conservative with their fording depths. Just add a snorkel to the defender and it can ford water well over the hood.

You never mentioned wheel travel on the H3. How does that IFS set up without air springs and solid axle with LEAF springs do for wheel travel? The all coil suspension beam axle of the Defender gives it up to 25.8 inches of wheel travel. Oh and the Defender has had this set up since 1983 or so. Leaf springs are cheaper though so it makes since that GM would use them.

Land Rover has rarely used anything but a center locking diff. Most other Land Rover now have an optional rear electronic locking diff and ARB has made air lockers for the front and rear of the Defender for many years. We have a rear air locker in our 1959 Series II that works fine.

Whey didn't you talk about gradients for the H3? The H3 can only climb a 60% grade or about 31 degrees. The defender can climb a 45 degree slope or 100%. The Defender can also do at least a 35 degree side slope while the H3 can only do 22 degrees. All stock Land Rovers are rated at 45 degree incline and 35 degree side slope but I have taken them past those angles before. In fact I know a few people have taken Land Rovers to nearly 45 degree on a side.

Is the H3 frame fully boxed yet? I know the H2 is not fully boxed and pays for that oversight with a weak twisty frame. I have watched a H2 twist up and bind on the first obstacle of our Land Rover demo course. I know the H3 frame is supposed to be stronger so I hope it can go through an obstacle that a Freelander makes it through with no problem.

http://www.overlandexperts.com/fleet.html

That is the off road driving school we use for our events. See any hummers on their fleet list at all? Nope you don't because when they had a chance to preview the hummers they passed on them. In one day they broke nearly every hummer that was supplied to them. They broke them on the same trails that we take bone stock new Land Rovers on once or twice a year.

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British Rover: Actually, nothing that I wrote is BS, it's all facts. Point out the BS and you'll win a cookie. Now, what you wrote, has some BS, that's not a good way to win an arguement.

Yes, just like the H1, a diesel can ford a lot more water if equippped properly, but I'm working with specs given from Land Rover. They say 20, HUMMER says 30 for the H1, so there's definitely an issue on a stock Defender for LR to only advertise a 20" water fording limit. Many H3 owners have taken on water over the hood, while it's not recommended, they've done it without issue.

I don't have exact wheel travel #'s (I'd like to know where you got yours from) however the H3 is known for it's fantastic rear travel.
Here's are some pics

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37196&stc=1&d=1173449420

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18932&stc=1&d=0

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16341&stc=1&d=0

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11938&stc=1&d=0

I find it amusing that you knock GM for using LEAF springs because "they're cheaper", when in actuality LEAF springs cost more than coils to produce :) Infact, a coil vs leaf fight is just silly, they both have their advantages and disadvantages, and how they're setup is a much more important factor than anything.

Lockers are a key factor, and I'm talking about stock features, not what aftermarket has to offer.

As for slope degrees, like you mentioned for LR, same goes for any manufacturer. Specs are often minimized for protecting their own interests, but H3 owners have gone far beyond the grades listed, like on Lion's Back, which you probably know is about a 65+ degree max slope.

Yes, the H3 frame has always been FULLY BOXED. your BS about seeing an H2 get stuck where a freelander can go? My my, you have some imagination. I see who I'm dealing with. Does your pride in LR always blind you so?

Here, nice comparison of a modified Land Rover vs Stock and test mule H3's, both at Kanes Creek near Moab.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xYetQgdMv9E

http://www.fourwheeler.com/videos/6203121/kens-krappy-kam-hummers-in-moab-video/index.html


Your trend in BS is growing by the minute. You claim that orginization tested and broke HUMMER's on those courses, and the top vehicle is an FJ CRUISER? LMAO, FJ owners have been having their body sheetmetal RIPPING near the frontal crash zones doing minor offroading, and you dare throw out BS about HUMMER's breaking down? That's amusing. Tell Rod Hall, who's won year after year in a stock class H3 at Baja, along with his sons who drive H2's and H1's, whom also have taken top 3 year, after year, after year, how strong these trucks are. How come we don't see any STOCK Landrovers in Baja?

I think you should read up on what HUMMER owners are accomplishing before you continue your mindless jabs at a great brand. HUMMER is the ONLY brand which every vehicle is capable of some of the most difficult trails, RIGHT OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR. Don't even try to compare Land Rover to that, I've got enough ammo to shoot down all your BS.

Stop the nonsense, and STICK TO FACTS, kid.

And to end, here's a nice article from Four Wheeler,
http://blogs.fourwheeler.com/6236540/whats-new/breaking-news-hummer-adds-front-locker-option-to-h3-and-h3t/index.html

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The defenders wheel travel specs are right on the Land Rover UK website. And yes I did watch a H2's weak chassis twist and bind the drive line up in an obstacle that a Freelander can cross with the proper momentum.

Read up on the Overland experts site some more. The FJ is just the newest vehicle in their fleet and that is why it is at the top of the list. Bruce has been off-roading all over the world since he was in his early teens. The guy grew up in Beruit for gods sake.

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can we have some punctuation in that last sentence/gibberish?

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No... Land Rover is doing rather well as of late, hence them being used by Ford to help the sale of Jaguar.

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Land Rover and jag combined made over one billion dollars last year so I think they are doing ok.

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@seoultrain Did you understand what i was saying? If so what is the use of all this fancy pants grammer? Me and periods dont get along so well. I thought this was a casual blog and not 7th grade english class dont be so anal :p

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