p.s. overwhelmed by your greatness I meant to write "reward" instead of "award". But we all know that love is blindness.

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The automotive industry is global. It does not matter what you buy. Somebody foriegn or domestic will profit. This kind of xenophobia is baseless.

http://www.toomanycars.info/CarRelationship/Car_Rel-Image.html

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"The automotive industry is global. It does not matter what you buy."

Then why does Toyota have commercial after commercial about where they build their vehicles, if it doesn't matter? Why does the stock market change depending on jobs reports, if where things are made doesn't matter? I.e. otherwise the assumption would be that we could stop making everything that is made here and the job losses would mean nothing at what you are stating. Don't think so. I'm sure the U.S. holds the market on smart people, we don't need assembly jobs, we are all smarter than everyone else, we shall take all the intellectual and smart people service jobs in the world!


"Somebody foreign or domestic will profit."

That's like saying it doesn't matter where your wife gets her sex from, she gets sex. Yes it does matter. You ever see when a plant closes that service jobs in the area go too? That happens on a macro level too. If GM shutdown today then lots of supporting jobs go.


"This kind of xenophobia is baseless."

Please, don't forget. If you want to save a job you are a xenophobe. So if you don't want someone to come and take the things in your house you are a what-o-phobe?

Totally baseless, because you said so. And the Japanese, they never would be like that. How many Americans are on the board or execs in the motherland over there? The Japanese would never protect their rice industry or anything.

LMAO at your baselessness.

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Yeah, like instead of Toyota making cars their people want they make a shopping mall to boost sales. Gee, seems like something you import fans would say that GM would do.

BTW, GM probably makes 10% or less of their cars in Mexico. As of right now the only cars they make there and sell in the U.S. that I can think of are the HHR and the VUE. But new cars like the Aura, Sky, Outlook, all brand new, are made in the U.S.

You may mean ford with their Fusion but GM makes their latest technology hybrid systems (WHICH TECHNICALLY ARE BETTER THAN SYNERGY) in the U.S. See how the $115K Lexus hybrid system uses similar but not as complete technology as the Tahoe hybrid system.

Bitter? No. Just can't believe Americans are so dumb. We used to be one of the more educated people on the planet. Now, not so much. Now we fall for a car company building a shopping mall (i.e. if it doesn't work in Japan it will work here, so bring it on over Toyota)

Please go look at the history of Rome and see the parallelisms. Except, we gave the farm away in 50 years on top and Rome more like a thousand.

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Lithous- if I read the post correctly, it isn't that the Japanese Domestics aren't selling the cars people want, its that people don't want (as many) cars- PERIOD. Only way to fight that is with advertising dollars (yen).

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Its funny people like to compare Rome to the United States. The only similarities are that both had/have strong militaries and were the biggest kid on the block. That's it

The Romans were never nearly as xenophobic as the United States is.

Consider Chritianity. Initially it was viewed with the same discomfort many Americans view Islam today. As soon as it became popular and Rome could see how it could use it to thier advantage, it became the state Religion. I don't see that happening with Islam.

Consider Caligula. I won't go into detail here, but suffice it to say that if Clinton, JFK, or Spitzer acted like this guy...

Also Rome never took over a country by proxy like the US is prone to do nowadays. If Rome were to invade Iraq or where ever else, they would make no qualms, flimsy pretexts or spins about the nature of their motives. Also when Rome took over a place, the people in that place automatically became citizens. When Rome came it was either fight and most certainly lose or submit and live decently, but live.

Anyway, my point is your alluding that the US is Rome is false. When you really get down to the history there really is no analogue.

The planet is so incredibly integrated these days so if you think because if you buy GM

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"The planet is so incredibly integrated these days so if you think because if you buy GM..."

...Americans solely profit you'd be mistaken. GM and Toyota are global and both companies have stock holders that aren't American.

But I know you know that already. So I don't understand this root for the home team mentality. It doesn't work anymore. If it weren't for foriegn markets GM would be dead in the water. I think Holden and Opel clearly demonstrate that.

I can't stand blind xenophobia.

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"Its funny people like to compare Rome to the United States. The only similarities are that both had/have strong militaries and were the biggest kid on the block. That's it"

I don't know. The History Channel does many Rome shows and many historians seem to allude to that. Like allegence. Romans started caring less about Rome before it fell. Go watch the fall of Rome shows on the History Channel. That's when the historians start making the comparisons.

All because we were smart enough not to oppress every single nation we conquered because it comes back on you 3 fold doesn't mean we aren't like Rome in many ways. We do seem to have no problems going into other countries uninvited.

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The Japanese way of doing business. Very interesting read from 1991 and scarry how much of it came true.
http;//www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

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"Totally baseless, because you said so. And the Japanese, they never would be like that. How many Americans are on the board or execs in the motherland over there? The Japanese would never protect their rice industry or anything."
You know what's funny, the Japanese actually import a lot of the rice they eat from the United States. A lot of rice is actually grown in California.
If they give government subsidies it's just so they still have a few rice farms so the country doesn't starve if there's a rice disaster in California or if the US decided to stop selling them rice or whatever. Plus it'd be kind of bizarre if a country where rice was once the form of currency and virtually worshipped didn't grow any rice.
Half of all Californian rice exports actually go to Japan. Next time you're at the supermarket go look at where all the "japanese" rice is grown, most of them are actually Californian rice.

Anyways, protectionism is honestly bad for the economy, whether it's our economy or Japan's. You're basically wasting tax dollars to prop up industries your country isn't competitive in. It's a drain on the country's economy, since you're making other people pay taxes to support an industry that doesn't make any money.

It makes a little bit of sense when it's agriculture, since you don't want your people to starve to death if imports get cut off (whether because there's a natural disaster elsewhere or what), and by subsidizing you can help control the price of foods so that they're affordable for all people in your country. But for other stuff where it's not a matter of whether your people will starve to death, it's a huge waste of capital. Imagine if the US decided it would prop up a radio manufacturing industry, and offered massive subsidies so US produced stereos and headunits were competitive with $50 units from China. You'd end up wasting $100 of taxpayer money to make every headunit, just so the US would be competitive in the headunit/stereo marketplace. Of course every $100 came out of taxpayer pockets, so each unit you export to other countries is $100 of taxpayer money going down the drain for the sole purpose of supporting radio-manufacturing jobs.

It makes a lot more sense to put that same $100 into an industry you're already a leader in, to help extend your lead over other countries. So subsidies to promote industries like aerospace and medical equipment actually make sense, since the United States is actually at the forefront of those fields.

Alternately, spending that $100 to try and train more engineers and scientists would also be a good idea in general. But spending it to prop up industries that are not world-competitive is idiotic and useless outside of agriculture, and even there it'd be stupid to subsidize it any more than is required to maintain natiional security (aka stop your people from starving).

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Lithous, you seem very intelligent. You should know that most people make decisions based on micro, not macro. People make purchasing decisions that are best fit for their personal economics, not for patriotism or a domestic job market. Most people don't think about Michigan's job market when they are deciding between a Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, or whatever. When is the last time you thought about an American's job, when you purchased something from Wall Mart? It is the nature of our economy.
As far as the debt goes, that is how our country has such a high standard of living. We have a very small portion of the population with an enormous amount of $$ and we spread out the wealth through credit. The middle class lives a better lifestyle than they can afford at the time, and thus when it is eventually paid back, the rich be come richer.
Economies are becoming more and more global, and the United States imports much more than it exports, but is that deficit so bad? The US also has the greatest amount of Foreign Direct Investment. All I am saying is that economies are becoming global, and consumers are making purchases based on mirco, that is how capitalism works. It's not bad, it is just different.
- An American working for Toyota (wow what an anomaly)

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"When is the last time you thought about an American's job, when you purchased something from Wall Mart? It is the nature of our economy."

I look at country of origin and company of origin on *everything* I buy and that is the truth. Sometimes there is give and take but much of the time it is clear cut what is good for both micro and macro.


"The middle class lives a better lifestyle than they can afford at the time, and thus when it is eventually paid back, the rich be come richer."

When it is paid back is the time I am most suggesting is important. Dollar cost averaging. Why go *extreme* highs (affording way more than you can) and then have a foreclosure (and live below what you should have because you can't get anything a person with decent credit can)?

You pay the piper now or later.

So I get a 2008 Malibu assembled in Kansas which averages a 9.3 on edmunds.com instead of the 2008 Camry which averages an 8.1 (both consumer ratings) so I have to live with a 9.3 instead of the better (must be, it's a Toyota) 8.1, Oh well, my loss. I'm sure Toyota will hire enough people to go on edmunds.com and take care of those numbers. I did link to a .com.jp Web page one time that showed Toyota's Japanese suppliers and the page was gone fairly quickly. Yeah, they are nothing like GM of old.

Hopefully you learn enough about cars from Toyota that you and the rest of your co-workers start your own car company someday like Americans did century ago. Thanks.

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