Here's 5 more of my dollars then...gotta have the Evo...and the LP640

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You don't need to pay for XBL to download content. A Silver (re: free) account will be enough to download it. You just need to pay for the content.

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Yeah, I don't know what's up with all the GT5 loving around here. FM1 was way better in terms of physics than GT4 was, IMHO (You can't just floor an 800 hp Ford GT and get no wheelspin, no matter what GT4 says), and FM2 is already deeper, thanks to the damage and comprehensive customization. Oh, and now FM2 has all 4 generations of the M3.... which makes me very happy. Oh, and hopefully GT5 will have more than one tire noise. The sounds in FM2 are truly awesome.... from the violent impact sounds (a far cry from the all too common *thump* that accompanies a 180 MPH crash) and the awesome, multistage, multi-sound tire noises. Absolutely beautiful. And come on.... can a game really call itself the ultimate driving sim if the fast way around some corners is to bump up into a wall and ride it around? Give me a break. GT4, and for what I've seen, GT5 are awesome games.... but not exactly simulators.

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I would have agreed with you if Forza 2 didn't feel half-assed. They took out a lot of tracks. They took out straight line races.

There's plenty of room for someone to make a better game than GT (like TOCA 2), but Forza isn't necessarily going to be the game to do it.

They did a great job improving everything about the game while not improving the actual racing (outside of the great AI). I don't think MS' heart is in Forza anymore.

JD:
Riding a wall is an exploit. If you really are going to play it like a simulator, what do you care what happens if you ride a wall? You aren't going to be riding a wall anyway because you're interested in simulation, not arcade racing.

Complaining about this is like complaining that the action in the pits isn't accurate. It's true, but it's also well out of the range of importance.

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LS2/7-
I realize it's an exploit. I do notice you didn't answer how I can floor an 800 hp GT around a turn, in second gear (traction control off, thank you) without spinning faster than a top. But anyhow- I think it's tough to call a game a sim if the physics engine allows you to just slam into a wall to go around the turn faster. Just saying.

They certainly both have their merits, and I agree about not being enough tracks in FM2. Absolutely true. However, I think the driving in FM2 feels much better than anything in GT4. For the sake of fairness, I think it feels better in FM1 too. Also, FM2 is changing- the inclusion of an auction house to sell your custom painjobs and tunes is a new step in games. GT5 is changing too, but I haven't seen anything that big that's new aside from new cars and much improved graphics. We'll have to wait for GT5 to come out for real, I guess. Whenever that will be.

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If Forza feels more realistic than GT4, it's because of the in-car camera and sound effects. The physics are most definitely not more authentic, especially not between specific models.

GT mostly lacks realism when you try to do stupid crap with it (ram walls or do burnouts)... otherwise, GT4's physics still blow me away. Can't wait for GT5.

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Having played both Forza 2 (I own it) and Gran Turismo Prologue Demo (downloaded from the Japan Playstation Store) I can tell you that your statement is not entirely true.
Physics on GT are just as good as the physics in Forza 2.
Visually, GT makes Forza 2 look like it was done in Microsoft Paint. Soundwise, engine sounds generally seem genuine on both games, but Forza 2 edges out GT on account of the tire screeches sounding more realistic. Forza also wins on car customization and online(obviously xbox Live > Playstation Network)

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Well said about the the unnecessary variations. This tends to happen most with the Japanese cars I have noticed too. I'm just going to stick my two cents in here too. I loved GT2 on the playstation. It was fantastic. I played GT3 A-spec, and that was great too. Then I got an Xbox and played Forza as well. Throughout my limited driving career (Which involves driving around town and though the bends in the canyon in my veritable backyard.) I can say with confidence that the Forza series just feels more natural in terms of driving and grip physics. The sense of speed seems a bit off to me though. I will say I haven't driven an Elise like I do in the GT5 downloadable demo off of PSN, but that feels so much more unrealistic than the Elise in Forza, that it jars me. It's too tail happy around the bends in comparison, and if I can take the Type-R as an example, which I have driven through the canyon a few times; when I play Forza, the car just feels right. I realize it may all be subjective, and an opinion, but I really do have to disagree with the author of this post. Forza is just a better game to me in the simulation department as a direct result of my experiences.

I really would LOVE to see a definitive and scientific shootout between the two. Same cars in Real life, same cars in the game, and the same drivers offering up their opinions overall about which "feels" more correct. I'd bet my money (and have) that Forza is the more accurate.

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what is it?

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Ferrari F2007 F1 car. I would expect more of them to come. (BMW, etc)

To those complaining about no damage in GT5: If you are a good enough driver to not crash your car, why would it matter anyway?

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Forza 1 already pwnd gt4.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6124398/index.html

Nice try, though.

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Heh. Forza 1 looked like crap. Also, it lacked a good FF wheel. Finally, you couldn't really drive stick because on many cars (like the Impreza 22B) the engine note was messed up (stopped rising at about 6,000 while the rev limiter was at 8400) and made it impossible to shift by ear, which is key to racing.

Forza 1 was a valiant effort, and it really showed Digital Polyphony a LOT of things they could do better. But it didn't really "pwn" GT4.

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