Filed under: Convertibles, Recalls/TSBs, Safety, GM, Pontiac, Saturn
Feds investigating Solstice GXP, Sky Redline brakes
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has received around 40 complaints from owners of the Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline regarding the vehicle's braking performance. According to the owners, too much pedal effort is required to slow the vehicle down when the engine is cold. This may correlate with a TSB issued by General Motors back in December that advised dealers to recalibrate the braking control computer on both models. The system uses the stability control module's pump to increase hydraulic pressure when engine vacuum is low.
The investigation is in its preliminary stages, so no recall is in effect yet. However, NHTSA has one case of a crash involving one of the two models that could be attributed to the problem.
[Source: Automotive News – Sub. Req.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
mike 5:27PM (3/10/2008)
Probably some Libero-Japanese conspiracy, no way can GM have any problems, they have turned the corner. They are now making quality vehicles, Malibu is the bestest family sedan ever, Volt is the most enviro friendly transportation after the horse, no way can the NEW GM have vehicle issues…………….only Toyota has those.
Ohhh how beautiful is Rick Wagoner….Lutz for president…tra lalalalala….
GM turned the corner.
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Andrew 5:29PM (3/10/2008)
Bahahaha, if this wasn't posted in jest, I would have assumed it was something from Mr. Oak.
AlexP 5:42PM (3/10/2008)
The Kappa cars have never been without problems (engineering and etc.), at least that's what I've been able to witness since their introduction. I guess it's the bureaucratic aspect of GM that's responsible for this, because Hyundai turned around on the quality side (I'm excluding Kia here) rather quickly.
Anyway I doubt the newer mainstream cars will have that many issues, when you consider that Buick's 2004 lineup (we're talking about the old U-Body, W-Body and the Trailblazer's platform (don't remember what it is) equaled Lexus in terms of reliability.
I mean, the Malibu after its first model year (unexpected plug: the Maxx is awesome and the updated gearing and such in the 06 made the car feel much better than it felt in its first year, the only problem I had with it was the super-plasticy steering wheel that felt AWFULLY light in the hands) was fine (my mom's got the steering column issue, it's not a biggie (it's an issue that needs to be fixed but if it's not it won't break anything down) but it's annoying, along with a turn signal that's already done with... And aside from that, the poor fit (primarily the doors), I don't see how they could possibly go wrong with the update. The only thing they've really had to iron out since 2006-7 was some fit and finish issues with certain vehicles (Escalade's chrome door handles, Aura's trim, etc).
Willem B 10:06AM (3/11/2008)
ok...
40 complaints about:
"According to the owners, too much pedal effort is required to slow the vehicle down when the engine is cold"
so they need to push a little harder and farther on the peddle to stop. Whoopdyfricken doo... It's not even brake failure, it's pushing a little more...
I'd say the guy that crashed was probably following too close and tried to cover it up by saying he didnt realize he had to push the pedal in 5 cm farther, during the first 30 seconds the car is on....
come on...
Think about it:
During the first 30 seconds after you turn on the car, you need to push a little harder on the peddle, and this requires a recall?
daviddudeksr 6:55PM (3/17/2008)
It is not an issue of driver responsibility or quality, but the problem is the intermittent occurring of the loss of braking power. My 2008 GXP purchased in September of 2007 now has 3100 miles on the odometer. I have had the failure on four occasions, three times in the past three days, and was planning to pull out into a very busy street as I do several times daily, when this issue occurred. It was terrifying. I have owned countless evhicles through the years and never anything like this. The car is a death trap!! The dealer also had to install a new folding top as the driver's sidelite was restroying the original. This is unacceptable for a new car!!!!
psarhjinian 5:35PM (3/10/2008)
Even though I'll never drive one (because I can't fit in it, and not for lack of trying) the Sky is still a gorgeous car. Much nicer (and far less tacky) than the Solstice. While they get the shape right, GM usually has trouble with detailing (Honda has the same issue). In this case, they nailed both.
Anyways, it looks like they're dealing with it. Hopefully (crosses fingers) this doesn't turn into a gripefest. Recalls do not equal reliability, and the number of vehicles recalled don't speak at all to the quality of the model or the make.
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AlexP 5:45PM (3/10/2008)
I totally agree, the Sky is gorgeous. I just hope its next iteration will get a higher level of engineering treatment than it did (so it can compete with the likes of the Miata, without looking as, well, non-masculine as it does).
R 7:35PM (3/10/2008)
While I agree the car looks good, upon further inspection I was sorely disappointed. Great engine, but handling apparently has much to be desired, and when you're driving a roadster...well, handling should be high on the list.
Then there's the horrible soft-top design. Full manual, requiring you to get out, and it consumes all trunk space while down. It's a great first roadster for Saturn, though, and I expect lots of improvements down the road.
Alpha 10:28PM (3/10/2008)
I'm 6'2" 210lbs and had no issue fitting in this car. It amazes me when people say "I could never fit into that tiny thing". I've owned two tiny cars NX2000, Firefly, and never hand an issue. The only car I've ever had any issue with was a Porsche Boxer with the roof closed, I found it odd that I fit just fine in the smaller Miata. So unless your taller then me by a fair bit, its time to loose that spare tire.
psarhjinian 1:47AM (3/11/2008)
Alpha,
I'm 6'9" and 250. I tried--real hard--to fit in this and I can if I leave the top down and don't need to work the pedals.
The Miata is worse. The S2000 is a no-go zone if I value by kneecaps.
Valentino Amoro 6:06AM (3/11/2008)
If you're 6-9 you are an exception and most cars are not meant to be optimized for you, you know that so stop griping.
There are Cadillac Escalades etc aplenty...
psarhjinian 10:04AM (3/11/2008)
Valentino,
You'd actually be suprised what does and doesn't fit.
What does:
Most microcars fit well (I've drive a Smart fortwo as a rental in Europe and my Honda Fit is a company car). Most European cars fit well, too (my Saab is pretty good; the MkV Rabbit I borrowed when it was in the shop for two weeks worked well, too). Sports cars are tougher, but the Corvette, 350Z and Mustang are easy fits; the RX-8 is tight and the roadsters (excepting the higher-end models) are impossible.
Needless to say, the Honda Element rocks my world.
What doesn't:
I had a tough time in the Mazda5 because of limited seat-track travel, terrible trouble with the Toyota 4Runner (intrustive dash), the Pontiac Grand Prix (low roof) and with the Mercury Grand Marquis (massive steering wheel). The aforementioned Escalade isn't great, either. A lot of big cars are sized for small people.
Hey, I'm allowed to gripe. If I could get an extra inch of seat track travel and 5-10 degrees of recline, I could have had a Sky.
PAT 5:40PM (3/10/2008)
Thank you psarhjinian, some level headed comments, becoming endangered on this site as of late.
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PJ 6:07PM (3/10/2008)
I really wish GM had baked the SKY/Solstice completely before releasing it. This car has gotten a bad rap--not entirely undeserved--for sloppy detail engineering. The top and 5MT gearing (and NVH, in a few examples I drove) at introduction really were inexcusably half-baked.
Too bad there's no easy running fix for the nonexistent trunk and contortionist secondary controls.
I don't think this particular bit of news is unusually significant, but it does add to a tall heap of detail complaints that lead me to suspect history will remember this car as Fiero 2.0.
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PJ 6:35PM (3/10/2008)
PS, the Fiero was really a great, sorted little car by the end of its production run, just as the Solstice likely will be in a couple years/as soon as the coupe comes out. I just hope the image damage hasn't already been done by that point, as it was with the '80s car.
why not the LS2LS7? 9:20PM (3/10/2008)
A sub-$20,000 car doesn't have 6 forward gears? Oh, boo-hoo...
PJ 10:40PM (3/10/2008)
No, no - not the number of gears. The *gearing.*
The gap between 2nd and 3rd was wide enough to fly a 747 through.
Talis 6:20PM (3/10/2008)
you got it psarhjinian, the Solstice/Sky is a good enough car. Just because a car (or platform) has one or two problems does not mean it is bad. I do not know how many other problems this platform has had in the past, nor do I really care seeing how I do not own one (yet). And lets not forget that there has been no official word of a recall as of yet.
However, there is a problem when the number of recalls becomes so high, or that the recall it self is so devastating that it causes people to no longer trust the brand. This problem is just a simple oversight on the part of the engineers, and is actually more common that one might think.
I have some experience with engine vacuum in older GM cars, and it tends to be the biggest nightmare one can imagine. Corvettes have always had a problem with vacuum, especially the sharks (1968-1982). My 1975 Caddy Eldo has more vacuum problems than I can count.
I am sure that the NHTSA will find there is no need for a "recall" for this problem, maybe "suggesting" that owners of this cars do to the dealer to see if they can have an adjustment "courtesy of the dealer" In other words, to have a recall but not call it that in order to save face.
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Thedevil 6:54PM (3/10/2008)
GM is back to his old ways, it was only a matter of time ,i gave AUTOBLOG these tips but maybe they didnot get them ,MAYBE!....Ice formation in engine can cause problems
February 19, 2008
• More automotive news ...
Federal safety regulators are stepping up an investigation of the vehicle speed control system in 2004 and 2005 Chevrolet Aveos.
The Office of Defect Investigations (ODI) which is part of the National Highway traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has upgraded its evaluation of complaints which began October 19, 2007 about stuck throttles in the Aveo because of “ice formation within the engine air intact tract.”
The change, according to ODI, follows a safety recall by General Motors “involving substantially similar vehicles manufactured for sale in Canada.”
GM, according to the federal safety group twice revised the Canadian recall “to include more substantial changes to the throttle body, intake manifold, positive crankcase ventilation and engine cooling systems to further reduce air intake tract.”
After receiving 28 complaints of a stuck throttle in vehicles in the U.S. along with 46 warranty claims affecting 63 vehicles,” investigators suspect the defect occurs in the winter when the temperature is below freezing.
Information provided to ODI by GM does not include events involving stuck throttles during the “most recent winter months” so the investigation will be intensified to “further study the frequency of the alleged defect,” according to ODI.
An engineering analysis is often the last step before a NHTSA-mandated recall.....
Consumers complain recall wasn't effective
March 3, 2008
• More automotive news ...
Federal safety regulators are investigating a 2001 General Motors recall of 506,377 following consumer complaints that the repair was ineffective.
On November 30, 2001, General Motors notified the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) that it would conduct a safety recall of 506,377 'ST' vehicles produced from November 1999 to August 2001. to correct a defect that could cause loss of stop lamp and rear hazard lamp function,” the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) reported on its web site.
“The recalled vehicles are model year 2000 to 2002 Chevrolet Blazer, GMC Jimmy and Envoy, and Oldsmobile Bravada,” according to ODI.
Safety investigators have received 44 complaints “stating that either their vehicles were not in the original scope of the recall or that they had the recall repairs completed on their vehicles but the brake and hazard lamps are still inoperative,” ODI said.
ODI has opened an investigation of the 2001 GM recall “to further examine the issue.”
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AlexP 7:08PM (3/10/2008)
You conclude that they're back to their old ways because the Daewoo integration was painful (04 models were problematic as hell, 05 better, 06 and later are perfectly fine) and because they had issues with their older vehicles (wow no really)?
The reliability turnaround started in 05 and Kappa vehicles were misengineered.