Click to see how the 2nd-gen Hybrid system fares against other engines
GM Chairman Rick Wagoner is on hand at the Geneva Motor Show today, and one of his big talking points is the production announcement of a second generation GM Hybrid system. For those without a guide book, that's GM's branding for its mild hybrid system as opposed to the high-end Two-Mode system that's used in its full-size trucks and SUV hybrids. The current version of the system is available on the Saturn Aura and Vue and the Chevy Malibu.
In Geneva, Wagoner is announcing that the second generation of the GM Hybrid system will go into production in 2010. The basic layout of the system is unchanged, but the system has been substantially upgraded. The 36V nickel metal hydride battery gets replaced with a smaller, lighter and more powerful lithium-ion battery. The motor/generator is still driven/drives through a belt and fits in roughly the same package size. The motor/generator is now much more powerful, which means that the system can now be used with a much wider variety of vehicles and engines. During a pre-show briefing, GM said the volumes with the new system are expected to quickly ramp up to 100,000 units annually and beyond. This system is designed to be compatible with gas, flex-fuel and diesel engines, and thus will be used globally including in Europe. Interestingly, this system is also easily adaptable to rear-wheel-drive applications and can provide a 15-20% improvement in fuel efficiency. For more details, head over to AutoblogGreen because explaining this stuff is what they do.
[Source: General Motors, via AutoblogGreen]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jgp @ Mar 4th 2008 8:56AM
Why continue with the mild system? Why doesn't GM just use the two-mode system across the board?
Joe @ Mar 4th 2008 9:37AM
The two mode is a lot more expensive. For the bucks you get a lot more of a bang with the mild hybrid.
Snark @ Mar 4th 2008 9:22AM
Because the two-mode system is so expensive that GM would either have to sell the vehicles at an unrealistically high price point or eat a loss on every vehicle sold. I've heard that the Tahoe Hybrid would cost well north of $70k if it were priced the same way that other cars are - and GM basically subsidizes the cost for its customers. The mild hybrid system is far less expensive, and can be added to the car without a huge bump in price.
bananas @ Mar 4th 2008 8:59AM
Go for it GM! Woo Hoo!
jordan @ Mar 4th 2008 9:05AM
The neatest thing about the graph is that it shows how much of an advantage that the 2.4l turbo/hybrid motor w/hp down low (due to the electric motor kicking in at take-off). It looks like the turbo kicks in at about 3800rpm to keep the power curve at or above the 3.6l v6.
JIM MBONGO @ Mar 4th 2008 9:06AM
Hi igp,
The two-mode is still too big and too heavy for small cars. Maybe the one in Saturn Vue Two-mode may easily work for middle sized and larger cars.
psarhjinian @ Mar 4th 2008 11:21AM
Toyota crammed a parallel hybrid into the first Prius, which was the size of the Echo. The current Prius isn't particularly large, either.
The BAS system exists for cost reasons. It's not a bad thing--especially in urban areas where you're stopped for long periods--but it exists to meet a cost constraint.
Schmeltz @ Mar 4th 2008 9:17AM
"Why doesn't GM just use the two-mode system across the board?"
The 2-mode hybrid system is very expensive at this early stage, and doesn't fit in every vehicle. It really needs to be designed to go into a vehicle from the beginning. With that said however, I have read that GM is looking into multiple other vehicle platforms to install its 2-mode.
As for this next gen. hybrid system, I welcome the concept as it appears to be a way of putting better fuel economy into the hands of a much broader swath of customers, many of which are reluctant to shell out a premium for a high efficiency hybrid platform. I would suggest, why not offer this as a "Standard" on vehicles, rather than just an "Option"? It would be similar to how Air Conditioning and power windows are standards today.
All in all, thought provoking idea. Nice to see fuel efficiency on the front burner with more and more companies.
Snark @ Mar 4th 2008 9:24AM
Eventually, I'm certain that mild hybrid systems - with starter-alternator-assist system, idle stop, and electrically-driven accessories - will become standard, just like air con and power steering. If nothing else, the regulatory environment is such that engines will have to be mild hybrids just to be certified. Strong hybrids and series hybrids are probably not likely to become standard in the short-to-medium term, but who knows what'll happen when ultracaps and batteries become fully mature.
PJ @ Mar 4th 2008 9:41AM
Transmission? Neither this post nor AutoblogGreen's has info on what kind of cog-swapper this system will be connected to.
Arguably the biggest problem with GM's current BAS is that it's a cost-effective solution designed to eke out a couple extra MPG, but then they hook the thing to a four-speed auto, which shaves off a couple MPG relative to a good five- or six-speed. Stupid.
If this upcoming system gets a six-speed or CVT, it'll be a definite step in the right direction. That said, given the two-year timeframe GM is posing for its introduction, I'm not sure this new system will have any more of a competitive edge in 2010 (with a 60 MPG third-gen Prius on the market) than the current one has now.
Sam Abuelsamid @ Mar 4th 2008 9:44AM
The new system can and will be paired up with any and all transmissions. The days of CVT are probably behind us except for the planetary gear EVTs on full hybrid like the two mode. Dual clutch transmissions are the way forward for the foreseeable future.
PJ @ Mar 4th 2008 12:57PM
Thanks for the reply, Sam. I certainly hope GM takes advantage of its options for this technology--it's a good idea in principle, one that's been botched by half-assed execution (and hasn't helped GM's "greenwashing" baggage). I personally prefer an EVT in this sort of application to a dual-clutch transmission. But I'm also bitter about their inevitable replacement of the proper three-pedal manual.
Jimbo @ Mar 4th 2008 9:48AM
I wouldn't be surprised if GM offers a mild hybrid version of each of their vehicles with this system eventually.
LMBVette @ Mar 4th 2008 10:12AM
I would love to see them put the mild hybrid system in the Corvette. I think the reason why the mild hybrid numbers are not very impressive is due to the engine displacements.
My car has a 6.0L engine that is probably burning more than 3 times the fuel at idle than the 2.0L turbo. My Vette gets 29 mpg on the highway when I set the cruise at 80. If it had the mild hybrid I'll bet it would get 20-22 in the city. As it is now, I get around 18-19 in the city and as high as 20 if I'm really careful (I kill the engine at long stoplights).
Polly Prissy Pants @ Mar 4th 2008 3:04PM
A hybrid 'vette? Dream on. You can't realistically buy a hybrid Malibu today and a hybrid Cobalt (shudder) isn't even on the radar. GM's hybrid line-up is a textbook paper launch. Sure the press releases sound great but they're not getting anything out on the streets. And a 2nd gen system? Lemme see you make the 1st gen available then maybe we can start dreaming about gen 2.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Mar 4th 2008 11:14AM
I hope that the new mild hybrid system is a SULEV (low emissions vehicle). The current hybrid Aura is actually worse on trace emissions than the V6 model.
Otherwise, it's great to see GM putting more effort into their mild hybrids, as they will likely make up the fattest part of the market going forward.
Mr. Oak @ Mar 4th 2008 11:20AM
Is that 2.4L engine a DI mill? If no this makes no sense. DI motors are more efficient than your standard EFI motors. the 2.0 DI motor from the Solstice\Sun should be what they are building this system around.
One level of tune for performance another for efficiency.
Imgine a 300+Hp Solstice or a 40mpg+ Astra, Cobalt, Malibu etc.
Non-Turbo for the less powerful cars, Turbo for the more powerful ones.
I personally would like to see a 300+ HP 2.0 DI Turbo Hybrid Malibu mated to a 6 speed Auto.
Mr. Oak @ Mar 4th 2008 11:29AM
....another thing, a 5.7L DI LS motor is what they should be looking at for the next Corvette.
Willing to bet they could get 425 - 450 Hp out of such a mill.
Supercharged for the big Bopper.
Mr. Oak @ Mar 4th 2008 11:31AM
Disagree on the hybrid Vette. Will be too heavy. See my comments below.
Mbuku Kanyau Mbithuka @ Mar 4th 2008 11:39AM
"Why continue with the mild system? Why doesn't GM just use the two-mode system across the board?"
Why would GM want to drop a technology that it can improve on? The Mild Hybrid may not be as sexy as a Camry size jetson prius "synergy" system, but its cheap and cuts down on fuel consumption, improving it makes sense... Killing it does not.
"The current Prius isn't particularly large, either."
Its a fat bubly pig.. inside its got as much space as a Camry..