California and 18 other states have been waiting patiently for a reason why the EPA denied them emissions waivers even after the government agency's own scientists recommended that the waivers be granted. EPA chief Stephen Johnson finally provided that answer last Friday, which allowed the 19 states' lawsuit against the EPA to move forward. Johnson's basic argument for denying the waiver centered on numbers stating that California's pollution and global warming problem is no greater than that of many other states, and that his decision was based on the facts and the law. California Attorney General Jerry Brown called Johnson's response "obfuscating, sabotaging, specious, and ill-founded," which we think means that Brown believes Johnson is full of it. We don't have a position on the California vs. the EPA waiver war, but it'd be nice to have just one regulation for all United States whether it's California's standards or that of any other state. That way automakers have but one mark to aim for, and Price is Right doesn't have to mention "California Emissions" when someone wins a new car.
[Source: LA Times]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
cowboy bob @ Mar 4th 2008 2:03PM
Thank God. If this had passed, every state in the union would want something different.
bvz @ Mar 4th 2008 4:25PM
sigh.
There seems to be a huge amount of confusion here.
Again.
California (and no other states) has historically been granted the right to petition for a waiver because A) it had already started regulating emissions before the federal government ever decided to step into the ring, and B) it was able to demonstrate that due to its size and extreme amount of pollution, the need for regulations was imperative. Once the EPA started regulating emissions, California's laws were grandfathered in and, in addition, it was given the right to continue to regulate its own emissions assuming a waiver is granted by the EPA. The dispute here is not whether California has the right to regulate its own emissions, but whether this particular request for a waiver was denied for political reasons or for a valid reason.
Now... pay attention here. Other states have the right to EITHER ADOPT CALIFORNIA'S STANDARDS OR THE NATIONAL STANDARDS. They DO NOT have the right to develop their own standards. Therefore, the argument that I see over and over and over that 50 different regulations are too burdensome for the auto manufacturers does not apply. There would be, at most, two standards (in addition to the standards that they already successfully meet in every other international market).
Luis @ Mar 4th 2008 6:01PM
This baffles me to no end...Isn't someone in say, Wisconsin,or China for that matter,going to breathe the same air eventually? We all live on the same Earth, right? Air standards are good for close proximity, but what good is that if in the next state over (example) they are polluting twice as much? I've said it before, people are going to drive what they want as long as their budget allows. I really don't see a mass group of millions going to purchase Prius' in the near future. No matter what there are always going to be those that like their (insert SUV or gas hog here).
jake @ Mar 4th 2008 7:41PM
@Luis
If you haven't lived in a big city you probably wouldn't understand...local pollution by cars can be a huge problem and it mostly affects the local population, lingering for quite a while. Just look at some of the pictures of beijing today and you can see how horrible the smog is from the cars/mopeds and it's mostly local (I've been there and on bad days the sky has a hazy light brown fog and the air feels very stuffy). By the time it reaches other states, the pollution would scatter and spread out. There's the argument right now that CA is much better now and doesn't need the waiver. In that past this was definitely not true, esp if you look at LA.
digitalzombie @ Mar 5th 2008 1:53AM
iright take a time machine go back 50 years or so and stand above LA basin. Look down up on it at around 6 am in the morning. That aren't clouds you see. It's freaking smog.
JaysonAych @ Mar 4th 2008 2:07PM
Yeah, I think emissions regulations should be a federally-derived nationwide standard. One state shouldn't dictate to the rest of the nation what those environmental standards should be, and we shouldn't have 50 different regulations for automakers to meet, thereby making the cost of building the cars to 50 different specifications that much higher.
zamafir @ Mar 4th 2008 2:12PM
It's so true, what with no states arguing they want to adopt CA's emissions... oh... wait... 19 of them want to... and they account for the majority of car sales in the country... apparently the sky isn't falling.
geo.stewart @ Mar 4th 2008 2:28PM
zam-
if CA really wanted emissions levels lower, the residents would quit buying hummers, Benzes, Ferraris, Porsches, and all would buy Priuses, Yarises,...
Since they dont, its obvious that there are only a few who want it.
OR, nothing has been set that says CA cannot charge the public a usage tax based on their emmissions test; it records pollutants issued by the vehicle and recording mileage is part of it as well. This will drive home their point also. If the people dont buy the big bad nasty cars, then the mftrs wont sell them there, or will learn to offer more frugal engine choices.
and btw: mpg does not have a direct correlation to emissions. they are related but a 10% increase in mpg does not necessarily reduce emissions by 10%.
so my question is : Does CA know what the heck it is doing? dont think so...
elprogramer @ Mar 4th 2008 3:07PM
To Zam:
So? The commerce clause exists for a reason. If California and their fans don't like it, then try and secede.
bvz @ Mar 4th 2008 4:40PM
Jayson,
Two standards. Two. Not fifty. Got it? Ok.
Sheesh.
geo.stewart @ Mar 4th 2008 2:09PM
its still going to court. CA had to wait for the resoning so they would know what reason to give for the suit.
But I agree, its a load of hooey.
It sounds like Calif. AG Jerry Brown has Seinfeld's Jackie Chiles on staff./
Carlos @ Mar 4th 2008 2:10PM
I just find it funny how California insists that they have to be different, and more difficult. If they want to benefit the nation, they should just fall off into the Pacific and leave us all alone.
Martin @ Mar 4th 2008 2:19PM
Do us a favor and go back to your mom's garage.
Carlos @ Mar 4th 2008 2:37PM
Okay so then tell me what exactly are the benefits of having California have it's own emission standards?
Takeo @ Mar 4th 2008 3:54PM
Ok Carlos let's try this one on for size:
We have more cars and more licensed drivers in a higher density than most other states in the Union. Therefore we'd like to stay ahead of the growth in automobile traffic and make sure we can all breathe.
For all of you who pooh-pooh air quality, get photos of what the Silicon Valley skyline looked like in the 1970's vs now.
The gains are real.
Matt @ Mar 4th 2008 4:17PM
Carlos: I agree fully. CA needs to go away.
They are so far gone, there is no getting them back. They are the reason we call it the "Left Coast"
psarhjinian @ Mar 4th 2008 4:26PM
@Matt
If California secedes, the single largest revenue generator in the entire US, as well as the largest innovation hotbed, goes away. If New York joins them, the US goes from "economic superpower" to "less significant than Mexico" really fast.
The US needs California. The reverse isn't particularly true.
YouFaceTheTick @ Mar 4th 2008 4:41PM
Carlos, do some research. Mmmkay. Go look up CARB and then EPA. You'll see CARB came long before the EPA. You'll also discover that the federal government has always recognized CA and CARB's right to create their own standards.
Sheesh...get an education.
bvz @ Mar 4th 2008 4:50PM
Carlos,
Your BBQ possum is burning. Best you go tend to that.
Carlos @ Mar 4th 2008 5:22PM
So you guys are for California making their own rules. Than by doing so they cause automakers to spend more money developing cars just for California, there by making them not want to invest in bringing over clean diesels. If you guys are really that worried about the environment than 90% of California needs to stop driving and start riding bikes or take public transportation. Because other wise it is going to take another 30 years for your air in LA to become what it used to be.