Word out of Frankfurt from the Financial Times Deutschland is that BMW is in talks to sell engines and transmissions to both General Motors and Fiat. All three companies have declined to officially comment.
The news is interesting, but not surprising. You may recall that GM has been selling transmissions to BMW for well over a decade for use in various 3 Series and 5 Series models (the current BMW 328i automatic uses a 6-speed GM 6L45 unit). So far, however, all have been automatic transmissions.
Speculating about the details, our tipster suggests that BMW may be helping GM with their SMG-style transmission program. As for the engines? It is possible that BMW could be selling its 4.4L V8 for the Cadillac line or lending GM a twin-turbo to compete with Ford's twin-turbo direct-injected V6? Thanks for the tip Brad!
[Source: Automotive News Europe, subs. req'd]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Andrew @ Feb 28th 2008 4:38PM
Not a new collaboration and not a bad idea.
meshies @ Feb 28th 2008 4:38PM
An excellent idea.
RRL @ Feb 28th 2008 4:55PM
Most likely the BMW diesel line and for the european market. Considering Ford was paying what amounted to a Mustang per BMW V8 when installed in the Range Rover line-up, I can't see BMW equipped GM gasoline engines in the US lineup.
Mark Ryan @ Feb 28th 2008 5:26PM
I agree that it's likely diesel engines for the Euro market. BMW doesn't make better petrol engines than GM already does, and it certainly wouldn't be cheaper to throw a BMW 4.4 into a CTS rather than an GM LS3.
Brendon @ Feb 28th 2008 4:57PM
I had thought BMW production was at near max... or is it just the template they're selling?
shiftright @ Feb 28th 2008 4:58PM
Although BMW makes some great engines, it always bothers me when engine swapping like this occurs, because it dilutes the brand you're buying into. It's all starting to become such a mish mash, that the badge doesn't mean much anymore. I like to know my GM or Fiat is all GM or Fiat. If I want a BMW engine, then I'll buy a BMW.
J. D. Billiford @ Feb 28th 2008 5:30PM
>>> That's exactly my position on this subject, Shiftright.
Unfortunately, with the high cost of R&D, manufacturing, materials and labor, it appears the days of exclusivity of a specific brand may be going the way of the buffalo.
paul34 @ Feb 28th 2008 7:03PM
True, but no one seems to complain with Recaro seats, a Momo steering wheel, Borla exhaust, Brembo brakes, etc.
Really, maybe you can just think of it as the engineering required to put everything together is still distinctly *insert car brand here*
Shiftright @ Feb 28th 2008 8:06PM
True, but Brembo, Recaro, etc are components manufacturers, not complete car makers. Not only are cars all starting to look alike, but drive alike as well because they all share so many platforms and drivetrains. Cars used to have unique and discernable characters based on their country of origin and make. It's so homogneous nowadays.
3seriesisking @ Feb 28th 2008 5:07PM
I don't like it. BMW makes some of the best engines in the world. Giving engines to Cadillac???? I don't think so.
BMW's engines are almost synonymous with the brand itself. Don't sell BMW, please!!
AlexP @ Feb 28th 2008 5:36PM
And I thought Ford fans were funny.
Hi I'm a company!
Hi, We're investors!
I need money to pursue my quest for glory!
You will have to prove yourself, young BMW!
I sure shall, sir!
I have proved myself, investors!
Congrats BMW, I shall buy shares of you!
Yay!
BMW, we believe that you should find new markets!
Such as, my good investors?
Selling parts to other companies!
That's a great idea, investors! I shall find potential clients!
DonatoM3 @ Feb 28th 2008 5:58PM
Alexp,
That was probably put the best and simplest that I ever could see it put. Not to mention being funny.
AlexP @ Feb 28th 2008 6:09PM
*gentlemen, rather than sir.
LeRobert @ Feb 28th 2008 6:16PM
BMW may increase profits now by selling engines to others, but when consumers start discovering that Cadillacs can drive just as well as a Bimmer and ALSO have less contraversial styling, BMW is going to start losing market share. Talk about shooting herself in the foot.
There's a difference between long-run and short-run profit increases, and BMW bigwigs need to recognise this. Exclusivity means money in the luxury market.
AlexP @ Feb 28th 2008 6:24PM
Less controversial styling? lol...
3seriesisking @ Feb 28th 2008 7:10PM
I know there are economic/financial benefits from such trades. That's a no-brainer. However, when you make a product well and have taken pride in that product for many years, I think it is wise to keep a that trademark product to yourself and not give it to your competitors.
Tool @ Feb 28th 2008 5:11PM
When Ford bought Land Rover in 2000, it had to continue sourcing the BMW 4.4L V8 in the new Range Rover (circa 2002).
The cost was reported to be more than the cost of a Ford Mustang, which meant that Land Rover must have been paying in excess of $20,000 for the luxury of the BMW V8.
I don't have a problem with a BMW in a Cadillac, but I agree with the comments that it seems to dilute the Cadillac brand.
Whatever happened to being the 'Standard of the World' again?
Stéphane Dumas @ Feb 28th 2008 6:01PM
Just imagine how the BMW fans might react if a BMW engine goes under the hood of the Cadillac or if BMW swap their V8 for the LS small-block lol.
A guy on GMInsidenews forums mentionned a interesting comment than I decided to quote http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1331033&postcount=8
"...Its definately manual transmissions because GM does sell most, if not all, of the automatics in BMW cars. Im really curious to see what motor GM wants to buy from them. I think GM and BMW should just forge a partnership like nissan was trying to do two years ago. I mean theyve already done the two-mode together and theyre trading for each others transmissions..."
Yar @ Feb 28th 2008 5:18PM
But, GM engines are better than BMW engines, it doesn't make sense that GM would want them. GM has a good history of turbo V6 engines, and if they wanted a twin turbo direct injected motor for Cadillac then they've already got a great base motor in the CTS.
SMG transmissions I could understand, although I absolutely HATE them. In my opinion they have too many negatives and not enough positive, plus they're too weak for GM's typical 'Torque-rich' performance approach.
Ligor @ Feb 28th 2008 5:27PM
the 3.6L in the CTS is by no means a better engine than the 3.0L in the BMW
but I agree, I don't mind transmission being swaped, but engines, now that's too far - a caddy with a BMW heart
what does that say for Caddilac, if you can't beat them...