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Daniel @ Feb 22nd 2008 7:42PM
By far the most reasonable and immediately feasible method of achieving ultra high MPG is through Bio-Diesel Series Drive Electric Hybrids. Same technology that the Big 3 used more than a decade ago under the U.S. DOE funded Program for a New Generation of Vehicles where each company achieve better than 70 MPG in full size sedans.
The technology is available today, no change is needed to our national fueling infrastructure and we would sending our $ billions to American farmers and refiners instead of to Middle Eastern oil sheiks.
This better be at the top of the next administration’s public policy agenda.
spw @ Feb 22nd 2008 8:38PM
what are you even talking about? Why in the world would you have series hybrid? There is simply no benefit.
And bio diesel - you know what happened to ethanol? you do realize how bio diesel is produced in USA and Europe? You probably dont.
And if you are talking about something like Volt with diesel engine, that technology certainly does NOT exist now.
To the article writer - reason they didnt reccomend all electric or hydrogen is because... guess what - you cant buy them now.
Nathan @ Feb 22nd 2008 9:32PM
SPW you are simply wrong on all fronts.
Series hybrids offer huge improvements in gas mileage because they generate energy at peak efficiency. And yes that does mean a car like the Volt, however the big stumbling block for the Volt is the battery pack being able to store enough energy to go 40 miles without any gas; if you were to skip the battery all together and just run 4 in hub electric motors off of a constant generated stream of electricity you could achieve better than current MPG figures.
Trains have been doing this for year and they don't have massive battery packs, the generate electricity on board with diesel generators as needed.
Biodiesel has been shown to return more energy than it takes to make and has the added bonus of being carbon neutral AND can be made from current waste products to supplement regular diesel refined from crude. And it is not produced the same way as ethanol.
Try doing a little digging before you start proclaiming you are the know all of car and green tech.
AlexP @ Feb 22nd 2008 11:47PM
I didn't know beaver-lovin' Canadians were Middle-Eastern sheiks.
Hum, maybe I should brush up on my version of "the world according to the United States" or something.
(spoiler: your main providers aren't Arabs anymore)
dean @ Feb 22nd 2008 11:53PM
Well said, Nathan. You don't happen to live in Spokane, Washington, do you? (not related)
Anyways, I do take issue with your idea on a series hybrid without battery packs. Its an interesting idea, but one that hasn't been tested ON CARS (that I know of). Light cars may perform very differently than trains (and large off-road machinery). Besides, if you run less than 40 miles per day, you don't use any fuel (practically). But cost goes up.
I'd like to see a series hybrid car without batteries just to test this...but not on an amateur level.
DC @ Feb 23rd 2008 12:29AM
Nathan, you still have some digging to do. Do you think an engine supplying electricity to 4 hub motors is going to have a constant load and rpm? That negates the advantage of series hybrids you cite - steady operating state. As spw alludes to, series hybrids may allow peak engine efficiency, but a parallel or parallel/series hybrid make the best use of the energy, since it can both take advantage of efficient engine operating conditions AND the efficient mechanical transmission of engine power at steady speeds. The comparison to trains just shows your lack of understanding - trains can use this "series" drive without a battery because the engine is able to respond to power demands fast enough for the purposes of a locomotive - not so with a car without seriously compromising your series hybrid "peak efficiency" idea. And yeah, while we're at it, lets use 4 hub motors for the fun of it instead of just one. Series hybrids do have a place however.
It is also nuts that you believe biodiesel is carbon neutral. So all the tractors and trucks in the distribution run B100, they clear no land to grow it, and they don't use fertilizers derived from fossil fuels? Right.
Dave @ Feb 23rd 2008 8:06AM
Diesel should be included because most will achieve better mpg over a conventional four-cylinder engine with the excepton being some of those low technology Mercedes supplied Jeep diesels.
Reality wise diesel cars are too expensive and would take years to recover the additional cost of the car/truck for the average consumer. Additonally, diesel fuel last I looked was 70-cents more per gallon compared with the base lead free gas.
When diesels become more common the prices for diesel fuel will continue to rise because profit at the expensive of consumers is the American way unfortunately.
m @ Feb 23rd 2008 10:06AM
No benefit to a series hybrid? What in the world are you talking about. Just plain wrong. Unless you really thought someone would build a series hybrid without a battery. That of course would be a terrible idea, but that's not the only kind of series electric hybrid.
And hub motors? Come on people... Can you say unsprung weight? I'm all for purpose built, but let's remember that real world cars that people will buy are compromises. Let's also keep in mind the quality of many of the roads we drive on. I already fear for my wheels and tires at times. I don't want to worry about my drive motors bouncing through those potholes too. I wonder what the 4 inch deep piles of salt I drive through in central Illinois would do to my motor...