Autoblog

Agreed! If they don't copy, they send us crap with lead in it. At least that was original!

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LOL @ the lead commend..

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I think they were copying the Daihatsu Gino - when you copy a copy, it gets even fuzzier:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/62561/gino_what_its_a_mini_lookalike.html

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sebastian mejia @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:59PM wrote: "Koreans and chinese make me wanna puck!"

First of all, what do Koreans have to do with the Chinese Lifan 3 Series? If you are going to be racist about it, at least try to hit the right target.

Second, copying other people is not an exclusive Chinese tradition. Ever heard of the Fokker Dr.I? The Germans, self-proclaimed Aryan master race during WW2, copied the Fokker Dr.I from the British Sopwith Triplane during WW1. Hey, if copyright infringement is good enough for your Aryan overlords, it's good enough for everyone else, right?

Think a little next time before you start vomiting xenophobia all over the place.

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_Dr.I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_Triplane

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@BIGROCKET.

Good job calling us "Aryans." You don't seem like a bigot at all.

Good job trying to fight the fact that China is notorious for ripping off other country's work. The fact is that, from technology to automobiles, China has done nothing but steal, cheat, and use.

So you're Chinese? You're Korean? Good for you, I am an Asian, too. That doesn't change the fact that China, an Asian country or not, has a huge lack of business ethics. (Not to mention other ethics as well.)

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2007-07-23-china-spy-2_N.htm

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Oh, and by the way, what does something Germany did during WWII have to do with this? LOL You sound like those religious extremists that bring up extremely old facts that are completely irrelevant today. Especially considering that as each day progresses, we're constantly making advancements in ethics.

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I have yet to see Korean automakers copy panel for panel like this car and other EXACT copies that Chinese automakers churn out.

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To Mke:

Of course the Chinese are copying others and ripping off their work, as seen in the Lifan 3-series, a cheap copy of the Mini. Now that we agree on the lack of ethics of Chinese businesses, let's not pretend that this lack of ethics is unique to the Chinese. You objected to the use of WW1 history in the current discussion. Okay, how about something more current, then. Not that I am an expert in industrial/economic espionage, but here is what a simple Google search found out:

1998: "France, Germany, Israel, China, Russia, and South Korea were named as major offenders in the article [about economic espionage]..."

And here is a recent one straight from Autoblog here:

2007: "The ongoing 'Stepneygate' espionage scandal ... McLaren F1 has been stripped of all its constructors' championship points for the 2007 season and fined $100,000,000 USD..."

Constantly making advancement in ethics as each day progresses? Get real, and read the news. Not that I would condone industrial/economic espionage/copycat in any way. But as I pointed out with well-documented cases, the Chinese are not the only ones doing it, and I would hate to see every mention of Chinese economic espionage turn into a forum for thinly-disguised xenophobic racism. The best way to sum it up is: Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Links:
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/7789/edition_id/148/format/html/displaystory.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/13/mclaren-spygate-verdict-reached-team-stripped-of-07-champio/

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Here's more to constantly making advancement in ethics as each day progresses:

1996: "Moscow's 'Operation Farewell' spent $1.4 billion a year in salaries and bribes to obtain secret details of thousands of NATO weapon systems; Russia's space shuttle was created by following documents taken from NASA. China has flooded the U.S. with spies, enabling that country to modernize its military with weapon systems that could bring it up to superpower status. Japan's efficient spy network has tapped U.S. universities, companies and research institutions, channeling a steady flow of proprietary documents, economic intelligence and biotechnology secrets to Tokyo. Agents from France, Germany, Israel, Taiwan and South Korea are also harvesting information and blueprints in the U.S. ..."

2001: "Two Japanese molecular biologists have been charged with espionage in the United States... The biologists are accused of stealing materials... and passing them on to... [RIKEN] in Japan, which is mainly funded by the Japanese government."

2002: "... at least twelve of our top trading partners conduct systematic spying on major U.S. firms. The top twelve include the seven largest European Community economies, plus Israel, Japan, China, Taiwan and Korea. Most are strictly company-directed attacks, but France and China most notably rely on government aid and direction."

Links:
http://www.amazon.com/War-Other-Means-Economic-Espionage/dp/0393040143
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6835/full/411225a0.html
http://www.worldtrademag.com/CDA/Archives/8f455b6347af7010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____

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@BigRocket's "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

So, because something similar happened somewhere else we shouldn't say anything now?

Whatever.

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DHG @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:39PM wrote: "So, because something similar happened somewhere else we shouldn't say anything now?"

How about: We don't pretend the Chinese are the only ones doing it, because the rest of the civilized world couldn't possibly stoop so low? And how about: We don't use these news reports as an excuse for making blatantly racist remarks, such as "the Koreans and the Chinese make me puke"? As numerous news reports have shown, China is just one of many countries in Europe and Asia that regularly steal intellectual property from foreign companies. China rightly deserves to be criticized for its illegal crimes, as do Russia, Germany, France, Japan, Korea, Israel, and many other countries all over the world. But for anyone to claim these crimes are due to the Chinese culture, tradition, or ethics, is a blatantly racist and xenophobic lie that runs counter to well-documented facts.

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@Big Rocket

You have made some very good points. However, I feel like you do not understand the extent of this behavior on China's end. Although, you probably feel that I don't understand the extend on the end of the rest of the world.

So... Touche!

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Mke: Feel free to criticize China (and other countries) when the news reports their companies are stealing technologies, designs, and ideas from others. I *only* object to racist statements that explicitly or implicitly say these illegal activities are somehow due to the culture, morality, ethics, or tradition of one particular ethnicity. Not to beat a dead horse at this point, but China is just one of many European and Asian countries that engage in large-scale industrial and economic espionage. Like I said, feel free to criticize China and the rest of them, as long as we can leave xenophobia out of the legitimate criticism.

By the way, now is as good a time as any to address one other issue. I don't just defend the Chinese or the Koreans. There have been numerous occasions right here on Autoblog when Toyota haters have used the racist term "Jap" in a defamatory manner. Below is just one of many examples, and you can see for yourself how I reacted to it. And I would denounce racism again when it happens, no matter which ethnic group is being slandered.

Link:
See Alain's remarks, and my responses to them.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/15/toyota-wins-most-recent-round-in-hybrid-patent-case/#comments

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