Autoblog

Those that live in wankel engines shouldn't throw stones.

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It also isn't going for $179K Euros.

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Which was probably a week's worth of income to her back in the day if Britney's 700k/mo of income is accurate.

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k.w.a @ Jan 21st 2008 6:17PM wrote: "... learn how to drive the damn thing!"

And that's why stick enthusiasts should stop whining about the loss of a third pedal, and learn to drive with paddle shifters.

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BigRocket: A long time ago I had a clutch cable fail. In a different car, I had the plates of the clutch stick together once. These are very simple systems and still have the occasional problem. However, being a resourceful person and knowing how things actually work, I was able to drive the car home safely both times, it just took a little change in my usual routine.

I don't think that's going to happen to you and your fanchy-schmancy flappy-paddle gearbox when it decides it doesn't want to engage (or disengage) the clutch, or perhaps just doesn't feel like selecting a particular gear. Ugly reg lights light up your dashboard and you call for a tow (hope you have cell service!)

I know how to drive a flappy-paddle box. If you had to put any effort at all into learning to do so, I'll cast aspersions on your IQ. I'll stick with lighter, less-complex, more-reliable. Thanks ever so.

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DKB_SATX @ Jan 21st 2008 8:09PM wrote: "I'll stick with lighter, less-complex, more-reliable [traditional manual transmissions]."
A traditional manual transmission may be lighter, but it has much slower shifting compared to a paddle-shifting transmission. The fact that the world's best sports cars use paddle shifters *exclusively* -- from Enzo Ferraris to Lamborghini Reventons to Bugatti Veyrons -- says all there is to say about the superior performance of paddle shifters. And another thing: "Less complex" does not equal "more reliable". Is a Ford Model T mechanically simple enough for you? E.B. White wrote in 1936: "You bought a radiator compound to stop leaks... You bought special oil to prevent chattering... After the car was about a year old, steps were taken to check the alarming disintegration." Said disintegration included fenders that "softened and wilted with the years."

DKB_SATX wrote: "A long time ago I had a clutch cable fail. In a different car, I had the plates of the clutch stick together once... I'll cast aspersions on your IQ."
Perhaps you should reflect on your own IQ first. A word of advice: Select your next vehicle with a better track record for reliability, and learn to do proper maintenance for your vehicles. You are welcome.

Link:
http://www.forbes.com/2005/07/05/luxury-cars-vehicles-lifestyle-cx_dl_0705feat.html

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@BigRocket
You know what the sad part is, even if your life depended on driving to a hospital in a '92 Civic stick, you wouldn't make it... cause you can't drive stick...
How much fun is a car which won't stall, won't ever be your true love, will never wanna play, and won't break your neck when you mis shift...
What happened to our damn logic? Are you the type of guy who needs a warning to know his coffee is hot?

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vdk @ Jan 21st 2008 11:10PM wrote: "if your life depended on driving to a hospital in a '92 Civic stick, you wouldn't make it... cause you can't drive stick..."
When was the last time you or anyone else heard this from the news? Would "Never" be the correct answer for this imaginary fantasy? I thought so.

vdk: "How much fun is a car which won't stall, won't ever be your true love, will never wanna play, and won't break your neck when you mis shift..."
The opportunity to stall a car and/or injure your neck due to a missed manual shift is considered fun and playful? That is the most laughable statement I have ever heard from any stick enthusiast. How the fortunes have changed, when stick enthusiasts used to laugh at automatics for their inferior performance, only to find their foot-operated clutches being laughed at for their inferior performance compared to paddle shifters. To your other point, I pity anyone who considers his car to be his true love. Driving a stick shift doesn't make anyone a man. Only a woman can do that.

vdk: "Are you the type of guy who needs a warning to know his coffee is hot?"
Are you the type of guy who believes in popular myths without looking into the facts behind them? I would tell you more about the facts behind the McDonald's case, but that would distract us from more interesting facts about cars and transmissions: Paddle shifters are superior to foot-operated clutches, and are used *exclusively* in:
• IndyCar
• Formula One
• Ferrari's Enzo Ferrari
• Lamborghini's Reventon
• Bugatti's Veyron

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I'll admit there are some very advanced paddle shifter systems out there, and that they can outshift a manual quite easily. But I'm not going to be driving any of those cars you mentioned any time soon (way out of budget), and while the DSG systems for the more common cars can upshift quite fast, they're not so fast downshifting. And then the non-DSG paddle systems, well...they're not nearly as good as the brands and marques you've mentioned. But even if they were, that's not my personal biggest issue anyway. It *is* about fun. And no, misshifting is not fun; I know, I've done it before.

But overcoming resistance is fun. Sports are fun because they are challenging. Football would be a bore if there was no defense and it was just the offense running towards a goal post. Billiards would be retarded if players started playing with pool sticks mounted on tripods that auto-fired themselves. Golf...wouldn't be golf if the clubs had auto-correction. After trying the absurdity known as golf, I truly appreciate the pro's.

I track my car, and nailing my heel and toe shifts smoothly just before a turn is awesome, almost as awesome as nailing a rail on my snowboard, and I certainly wouldn't want an AI snowboard to do it for me. Will paddle shifts replace all traditional manuals one day? Maybe, but until then, I'm sticking with a manual, or until the day those F1-class shifters reach the rest of us mortals.

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R @ Jan 22nd 2008 1:38AM:
Fun is a highly subjective term. For anyone who finds it fun to take on the challenge of a third foot pedal, more power to them, and I have no problem with it. The problem comes from snobs who perpetuate the myth that it is more skillful or manly to drive a real sports car with a stick. As I had pointed out:
• Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. have some of the world's finest sports cars, and they use paddle shifters exclusively in the best of their best.
• IndyCar and Formula One have some of the world's most skillful drivers, and they use paddle shifters exclusively.
• Only a woman can turn a boy into a man. Playing with a stick does not.

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Bigrocket, just want to point out that you missed a very, very serious supercar that doesn't make use of paddles. Porsche Carrera GT. Now, I love stick. Paddles can't be hard to use. If I were offered an F430 with either a stick or paddles, I honestly have no idea what my choice would be. They both have their ups and downs. I see what you're saying and all, but if nothing else, I'd love the option of a stick shift. But I mean, come on. Pulling the lambo V12 and replacing it with- of all things- a mercedes engine and tranny?? That's absurd. I will argue that stick isn't hard to learn. If you buy a Lamborghini, learn to drive it. If you don't want to learn to drive it, then don't buy one. Or am I way off base here?

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JD: There are plenty of supercars that don't use paddle-shifting sequential manual transmissions, and rely on the traditional manual with a foot-operated clutch pedal. The Porsche Carrera GT you mentioned is one of them, but it is one of the oldest supercars in the day and age of paddle shifters, preceded only by the Enzo. Newer supercars that rely exclusively on the traditional manual include the Koenigsegg CCXR, the Pagani Zonda F, etc., but notice these are from smaller car companies, which may or may not have the financial resources to develop a sophisticated paddle-shifting transmission system. In fact, Koenigsegg was reportedly in financial trouble last year.

At the end of the day, the 2 biggest names in the supercar business, Ferrari and Lamborghini, both offer paddle shifters in their entire lineup of cars currently in production, which speaks volumes about the legitimacy of paddle shifters as a high-performance transmission. Add the fact that high-performance competitive racing such as Formula One and IndyCar use paddle shifters at the exclusion of the traditional manual, and the conclusion becomes very clear: From a performance standpoint, paddle shifters are a superior choice.

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DSG or whatever the company may be faster and offter better preformance, but they dont feel the same. I like being able to flip my car into netural coast into the spot, put it into first, hit the brake and get out. You cannot do that with an auto you have to come to a complete stop and then shift into park. That and I dont want some tranny shifting for me at all. You can't tell me that any type of DSG will not shift if you get it close to red line.

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scout_vet2: You are correct to say DSG (paddle shifters) will automatically shift for you to prevent over-revving the engine. Although stick enthusiasts might disagree, I see that as an advantage, an insurance against damage to the engine.

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funny you should mention that... as when making Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome they ended up having to make the car she drove with an automatic. something the other cars lacked.

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/cars/madmax3/aunty.html

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