It's finally (semi) official: RWD cars like a new Pontiac GTO (and Holden Monaro) and Impala are "gone for now." Bob Lutz has been making noises about it for a while, and every announcement gets more and more certain that the front wheels will be pulling more GM cars.
Just a month ago, Lutz told Forbes "That's where the internal debate [on the Impala] is now -- no firm decision at this point, but my guess is that we will come down on the side of the front-drive car." By the time of last week's Detroit Auto Show, Lutz was telling GoAuto "I think the (Monaro/Pontiac GTO) is gone for now.... [T]hat's not the end of the market where we want to stimulate demand. We have to find ways to stimulate demand and desirability in cars that will get us closer to the 35 MPG average."
How will that be done? Perhaps by using the Alpha midsize platform and making CUV's. However, the Alpha still hasn't been signed off on, and won't be until GM figures out what -- and how many -- standards it will need to adhere to when the CAFE tug-of-war ends.
[Source: GoAuto]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
AMcA @ Jan 20th 2008 11:39AM
IF only they'd build fewer high-riding CUVs that need lots of fuel to push all that air out of the way, and build more RWD sedans that weigh a little more . . . .
I'd call that a better CAFE compromise.
But then, I'm not the market as a whole.
Derek @ Jan 20th 2008 5:31PM
How about a few RWD sedans that weigh *less*. The current Impala and Malibu are pushing close to 4000#.
Now, a 3000# sedan with a RWD V6/6sp stick would be the ticket for CAFE.
That One Person @ Jan 20th 2008 9:01PM
The Mali tops out at just over 3600lbs....about the same as the Accord and Camry.
I doubt any company would be able to produce a RWD car that weighs so little in the same price bracket as the Malibu or even the Impala for that matter. Heck, the 09 Corolla weighs in close to 3k lbs. Remember, less weight most definitely means a higher cost.
I would love to see a RWD car that was about the same size as the Malibu but I doubt it will happane...especially if it's meant to be placed into that price bracket.
Tom @ Jan 21st 2008 8:37AM
That One Person,
I had an '05 Subaru Impreza that was of course AWD, weighed under 3000lbs, and was roughly the size of a corolla. I have to imagen that a RWD drivetrain would weigh and cost less than an AWD one.
Azrael4h @ Jan 20th 2008 11:39AM
So now the question is how are they going to differentiate the 'fullsize' Impala with the nearly same size, currently much better Malibu.
cowboy bob @ Jan 20th 2008 11:39AM
I am so glad I lived in an era where they made real cars. I remember looking at new GTO's, Road Runners, SS-396's, and Hemi powered 'cudas. I thought we may be heading back to those days in the last couple years, but sadly, looks like we are not. Well, better to have had 'em than not. I still have my '66 SS Nova in the garage, so when I feel like re-living the days of yor, I can. So long to cars that might have been. And to those who would have loved them........
Stéphane Dumas @ Jan 20th 2008 11:59AM
I agree CowboyBob even I'm too young to remember then but I'm old enough to remember the Buick Grand National. The Accord is now morphed into "gramps's car" and the Camry......I fell like I'm just another brick in the wall in a wall carved of bricks in form of Camrys.
Ford on the other hand will plan a global RWD platform powered by Ecoboost and TwinForce engines and if Ford meets a big success with their future RWD platform, will prompt GM to change its mind and also caught Toyota and Honda pants down.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jan 20th 2008 12:01PM
So I guess the fact that a Camry has the same 0-60 as a SS Nova had in the 60s means nothing?
In a lot of ways, the muscle car came out on top.
Kevin @ Jan 20th 2008 12:30PM
I agree with you Bob; this is why the first car that I bought myself was a '73 Buick Riviera that I'm restoring.
And why not the LS2/LS7?
To me, the fact that your average modern family sedan will run rings around most muscle cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s makes little difference. They don't drive, sound, or look like the older cars do.
Take my Buick... it's a 5500lb car. It gets
Kevin @ Jan 20th 2008 12:31PM
I agree with you Bob; this is why the first car that I bought myself was a '73 Buick Riviera that I'm restoring.
And why not the LS2/LS7?
To me, the fact that your average modern family sedan will run rings around most muscle cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s makes little difference. They don't drive, sound, or look like the older cars do.
Take my Buick... it's a 5500lb car. It gets less than 10mpg, and its brakes and handling are nowhere near what they are on a new car. But you know what? Driving it makes me happy. Not for the same reasons that driving my STI does, but I enjoy it nonetheless. A Camry won't put a smile on my face, the Buick will.
Owain Ozymandias Buck @ Jan 20th 2008 1:33PM
"They don't drive, sound, or look like the older cars do."
I know; they're better. The average car is truly better.
Old stuff is cool, but innovation is even cooler. Don't get old before your time and end up like those old farts at car shows who think if it's not a '69 camaro or '66 nova--built to state of the art spec circa 1985--it's weak.
I love big, crude power. I love to go see pro-mods run. But there's more to a NOPI race weekend than hot chicks and stupid punks with baggy pants--there's some amazing modern muscle.
Kevin @ Jan 20th 2008 2:30PM
Owain;
I don't disagree with any of your statements at all. And I appreciate newer cars as well... the Buick is my project, but my daily driver is a 2007 STI Limited.
What bothers me is that the auto industry appears to be trending largely away from, as you put it, "big, crude power." I certainly won't argue that everything on the road should be like the Buick-which is give-or-take 20 feet long, weighs about 5500lbs, and gets about 7mpg-but cars like that have their own place, just as the STI does, just as a Camry or an Accord or a Suburban or any other car/truck does.
And to me, the loss of the last generation Firebird and Camaro, the failure of the GTO, and the probable short lifespan of the G8 (and maybe even the Camaro) is sad. They certainly aren't the best cars in the world-they never were. But they had a niche that they filled, and there's precious little out there right now that can fill it.
duders @ Jan 20th 2008 4:39PM
I totally agree with bob on this one, but I understand why some people dont. It's the experience that counts though, and so theres no point in arguing. To me cruising in the summer with the windows down in the city is the most fun that I can have.I own a 72 Toronado, she's a big battleship and more often then not when I go out to start her up it takes me an extra half an hour or so to figure out why shes just cranking and not starting. But I have fun doing that. She's not the fastest or the most efficient, but I love her still. The big 455 gives her character that most modern cars totally lack.
And I'm not leveling this at just imports either. I've got a 93 legacy that has as much personality as a car can get because it's built like a tractor and just won't die.
I think that if GM would just go through with making these cars you'd have more cars on the road with drivers enjoying driving them rather then them just being everyday econoboxes getting them back and forth from the job.
And in my opinion nothing gives the car as much personality as a V8 exhaust note.
Luis @ Jan 20th 2008 10:28PM
I find myself agreeing with yet another post from cowboy bob. What is going on with car makers these days? Why are they so afraid of RWD? I don't believe that with all the technology available we can can't make a RWD car that everyone can be happy with. I was very glad for the G8 to come this way, but it almost seems like you can't enjoy the RWD experience like it should be. How can you peel out properly with the front wheels? Stinking CAFE regulations...
Esprit bird @ Jan 20th 2008 11:58AM
Thats two times that the stuffy old GTO could not survive an oil crisis. Just should of gone with a Firebird, which flourished during oil situations.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jan 20th 2008 11:59AM
There goes Bob again, blaming the boogeyman.
Maybe the GTO is gone because it didn't sell well?
GM is shipping a new RWD sedan (G8) this year and a new RWD coupe (Camaro) next year.
Yeah, okay, the Impala probably won't become RWD. But is that strictly because of CAFE or because the buyers of cars from GM's lowest-cost division are very sensitive to fuel costs in these days of $3 gas?
jake @ Jan 20th 2008 12:24PM
Yep, still singing the same song and trying to get the general performance car public to be against new CAFE standards 100%. As you say, they are probably axing the GTO due to low sales, not to mention the CAFE standards seem to have no effect on their Corvette, Camaro, or G8. It's just an excuse. The RWD cars they sell can continue to be sold as long as they remain comparatively low volume.
George Heindel @ Jan 20th 2008 2:15PM
YOU ARE CORRECT..the Govt. under Bush and the Republicans will destroy the auto industry as we know it.
Frank @ Jan 20th 2008 2:43PM
I suppose Nancy Pelosi and the democrats had nothing to due with the CAFE bill just passed? George, please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here.
RealityCheck @ Jan 20th 2008 3:36PM
You are so right, I will miss not one day buying a new GTO and then selling it for a four door like my dad did. But a G8 or my CTS all wheel drive will do just fine untill they stuff a dual turbo V6 in it and a hybrid to get that 35 mpg... The sad truth is a RWD Impala is a bad business case, period. And its only ten years and two models for the new mpg law.