Mind the Gap: VW planning another sedan to slot in between Passat CC and Phaeton
click above image to view more pics of the Passat CC in high-res
Remember when Volkswagen launched the Phaeton, and everyone was like, What the heck are they thinking? Yeah, that was awesome. But it left a huge gaping hole in Volkswagen's product line-up between the Passat and the Phaeton. Wolfsburg tried to bridge the gap a little with the previous-generation Passat W8 4Motion, but that didn't do so well and was quickly taken off the market. The Passat CC unveiled earlier this week in Detroit helps fill the void, and the next Phaeton is expected to go down-market, but the gap is still so wide between the sedans that Volkswagen is reportedly considering making another one to slot into the line-up. Since the Phaeton isn't sold in the U.S. anymore, we assume this gap-bridging car is destined for the European market only.
This isn't mere rumor, speculation or conjecture. It comes straight from the mouth of Volkswagen's design chief, Klaus Bischoff, who revealed at the Passat CC's unveiling "We are planning another model between the Passat CC and Phaeton." Well, there you have it.
[Source: Auto Motor und Sport via The German Car Blog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
big L 11:43PM (4/03/2008)
VW has ben saying that they want to make vehicles in the USA. They said they figure the Passat is $4,000.too high. so driving the Passat down-market at least in price will leave a big hole. Forget the Phaeton. For the typical buyers, VW is looking to keep them in the fold. So they offer the move-up one from the Passat.
Then this buys them time to re-invent the Phaeton market. Or to come out with one like the Infiniti EX, to keep the interest up.
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DRFS Rich 10:10AM (1/17/2008)
I like the Phaeton. Sure, I'd never buy one new, but I'd love to pick one up secondhand in a year or two for a 50% savings. I think it's a great-looking car. I'd de-badge it and probably have a bit of a conversation piece.
- R
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Chopper Dave 1:53PM (1/17/2008)
You can find one right now for about $25k. No need to wait.
psarhjinian 10:34AM (1/17/2008)
You might pay a fortune for it. A Golf is potentially tricky enough after it, but a used Phaeton stands and awful chance of being an expensive experience.
I'd be pressed to buy a used Lexus. A used VW is asking for trouble: you don't know what problems it has/had, or what someone's tried to do to fix it (and make it worse). You also don't know the wear-and-tear it's been subject to. On a car where so much could go wrong, this is not a good thing.
Atomicbri 12:03AM (1/18/2008)
Same can be said for a used Lexus.... you never know what has happened to it or what the previous owners have done to it.
tekdemon 2:37AM (1/18/2008)
Atomic, while that's also true for any used car, since Lexuses are pretty much bulletproof, even if the previous owner was an idiot you'd be in better shape than with the VW-where even if the previous owner actually was a maintainence nut there was a good chance there were crazy problems anyway.
The resale values for VWs are bad for a reason-you have to spend so much money trying to keep them running.
If you want a car that's cheap to keep running, pretty much any German car is the wrong car to get-even if your Mercedes was perfectly reliable you'd need those ridiculous $120 oil changes (because you "have" to use the German Syntec that only Mercedes dealers have-or they void your engine warranty, and those engines aren't entirely simple or easy to fix). Of course, hilariously I know someone who actually brags about their $120 oil changes.
On the other hand, something like a Toyota Avalon ends up being insanely cheap to keep running, since it doesn't have crazy luxury car priced oil changes, parts are very easy to obtain and affordable (just look up car crash repair costs, Toyota have some of the lowest because of cheap parts cost) even if they break, and the darn thing is less likely to break to begin with.
The truth is that Germany used to be the pinnacle of precision engineering, with the whole concept of Wissenschaft (which is hard to translate-a lot of the definitions online are only approximations, but it basically encompasses the ideas of discipline, precision, and "science" in one word) and whatnot. Except the problem was that World War II really drained Germany of a lot of their top talent (in science, engineering, etc...after all, we stole half the nazi scientists and the Russians stole the other half), so German precision definitely isn't quite what it used to be.
But mostly, Volkswagen just seriously needs to throw out all their current electrical system designs, every last scrap of their current electrical system should be thrown out the window, and they need to go hire some decent electrical engineers, preferably stolen from an airplane manufacturer or something where they know how to make electrical systems that should never fail.
Seriously...whichever idiot at Volkswagen keeps wiring everything in series needs to be kicked in the gonads repeatedly. Everything from heated seats (not all of them either for some bizarre reason), to the old VW's where they somehow managed to put everything from a turn signal to the dash display to 2 separate fuses on the same loop. I think I did better electrical wiring when I was 16. Why in the world has VW not fired these idiots who keep coming up with these stupid designs? Is it some kind of German labor law or something that's forcing them to design the most idiotic electrical systems possible or something?
And of course, VW just makes their own problems that much worse by deciding to include random complicated electrical features, while not fixing the massive electrical problems they already have first. Because obviously, dumping more crap onto a badly designed electrical system is the key to making it more reliable.
Avinash machado 10:12AM (1/17/2008)
But it left a huge gaping hole in Volkswagen's product line-up between the Passat and the Phaeton.
What about the quality gap? Should they not fill that also?
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psarhjinian 10:41AM (1/17/2008)
That would mean admitting that they have a problem. Getting anyone from Ferdinand Pietsch on down to admit that they're not gods walking the earth is hard.
Things like the Phaeton (or the Veyron, or any of the shiny playtoys they trot out) are distraction activities, partly to keep the public and the media's focus off quality problems, but also to keep management from having to address them, too.
It's like how I post on autoblog to avoid writing a report, only on a much larger scale.
Austin 10:29AM (1/17/2008)
gap, there are sop many vws that occupy the same place its pathitic. lets see
rabbit, jetta, eos, beetle
passat , cc
they make suzuki look bad
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zamafir 10:34AM (1/17/2008)
Yeah, I mean who wants to cater to customers who want a hatchback (Golf) or a sedan (Jetta) or a convertible (Eos). BMW should just ditch the 1 series, it's total product overlap with the mini just like the beetle and the golf. you're right, there's no place for niche retro cars in automakers lineups, Why should anyone have the choice of buying a passat for more pasanger space, everyone should be limited to just a jetta option. Thank goodness the US automakers aren't overlapping even more, man then they might be loosing money. phew.
And you forgot the tiguan, which obviously won't succeed with an base price of $22,400, 200hp, 217lb ft of torque and a 6MT standard. Man what is VW thinking. It's a wonder they make billions and billions every year.
lovice 11:38AM (1/17/2008)
What?
Mini is a B-Segment car like VW Polo.
1-Series is a C-Segment car like VW Golf.
Where is the overlap? Not all hatchbacks are in the same segment!
And there is a big price difference between Mini and 1-Series, too.
On the other hand, the new Beetle is based on the MkV Golf. So they are like you said in the same segment. Just with different styles.
zamafir 12:36PM (1/17/2008)
Good points, I've just heard quite a few friends with minis express an interrest to grab a 128, etc.
HeyHuub 10:55AM (1/18/2008)
THe New Beetle is still based on the MKIV Golf.
Mr. Oak 10:37AM (1/17/2008)
Isn't VW and Audi corporate siblings? Why is VW trying so hard to crap on Audi's turf? This makes no sense. I would never shop this car if it comes within sneezing distance of the A6's price.
VW may getaway with marketing this in Europe and elsewhere, but the in shallow badge\status conscious American car market, this will fall on its face again.
In the eyes of the US car buyer:
VW does not = BMW, MB, Lexus, Cadillac, Audi.
As a brand, preceptionwise, it is slotted just between Buicks (not for long), Chevys, and Acuras and Infinitis.
Other than the Corvette, GM won't dare to try selliing a Chevy that far upmarket.
WV here is a clue:
Tier 1 Brands: MB, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Lexus
Tier 1.5: Cadillac (is moving up), Infiniti, Acura.
Tier 2: Volvo, Saab, VW, Lincoln.
Tier 3: Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Buick, Hyundai, Ford, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan.
Tier 4: Kia, anything from China etc.
P.S. Notable omission: Jaguar, not really sure what the heck to do with them.
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Zane 10:44AM (1/17/2008)
Based on your classification, Tier #2 is highly debatable since Lincoln, Saab and Volvo (to some extent) aren't really that good.
Ford and Buick should be clubbed together in a separate category, say Tier 3.5.
Mr. Oak 10:58AM (1/17/2008)
Lincoln got placed in that group based on the newer offerings, the MK-? alphabet jumble. Chrysler & Dodge are though to separate, so I would throw them into tier 3 also.
Ford Edge lifts the brand up a bit, everything else drags them back down. They stay in Tier 3.
Buick could move up, but other than the Enclave, they really don't have much product. Depending on their new offerings, they may be able to move to Tier 2.5.
Mazda is the only brand that I would currentle place in Tier 2.5
mk 11:42AM (1/17/2008)
Amendment: (note that some brands span tiers with their model lines, some brands may have individual models in tiers above or below their listing)
Premier: Maybach, Bentley, Rolls, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin.
Tier 1 Brands: Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Lexus, Cadillac (moving into this group), Maserati, Jaguar, Range Rover.
Tier 2: Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Infiniti, Lower BMW, Lower Audi, Lower Mercedes, Acura, Buick, Pontiac G8/Holden. Saturn (barely, now that it is Opel USA), Land Rover. Alfa Romeo, if it comes to US.
Tier 3: Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Hyundai, Kia, Ford/Mercury, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep.
Tier 4: China, India, and other developing countries cars, like Tata Nano.
mk 11:47AM (1/17/2008)
I can't believe I missed Mazda. I knew I forgot something.
Tier 3.
Mostly economy and mainstream cars, even despite trying to go a bit upscale with CUVs.
Zane 8:14PM (1/17/2008)
mk, would you take a Jaguar X-type (Tier #1 according to your classification) over a Infiniti G35, Acura TL or Bimmer 3-series?
Hyundai and Kia in the same group? Your classification is totally off the mark mate.
MemphisNET 10:37AM (1/17/2008)
VW has a pretty solid lineup. This is all fine and good to announce new models, but they should concentrate on selling what they have first, expanding the core market before worrying about another super sedan.
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