http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/ Autoblog Comments for Detroit 2008: Chrysler ecoVoyager Concept lands http://www.autoblog.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.autoblog.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 12:19AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 12:21AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 9:25AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
Make this Chrylser, it's time do dig yourself out of a very deep hole. ]]>Jan 14th 2008 12:23AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
Hydrogen gas (fuel cell fuel)

high voltage

Lithium-based batteries.

Does this say fiery crash to anyone else?

Hydrogen burns very easily, even without a major spark risk like high DC voltage. Not only that, but lithium batteries have a tendency to burn very agressively when ruptured and exposed to oxygen. (both hydrogen and lithium are column 1 of the periodic table, and highly reactive with oxygen, which would be combustion.)

Maybe it will run fine. I wouldn't want to be within a hundred yards if it gets wrecked, and either the hydrogen or lithium batteries become exposed.

I want to see a LOT of crash testing trials before I trust my family in a two-ton rolling incendiary device.]]>Jan 14th 2008 12:47AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 12:51AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
Just what do you think they're rolling around in now? ]]>Jan 14th 2008 12:54AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
There are how many car accidents a day in this country?

Even when fuel is spilled, it doesn't automatically ignite without a major ignition source.

DO NOT Try puncturing or short circuiting a Lithium battery. Or releasing hydrogen gas into an oxygenated atmosphere. You might not even need a spark for a fireball.

Hydrogen usually burns pretty clear, anyway. what else will it start on fire before you even see the flames? Not only that but H2 is so small that it can leak past seals, or through porous materials. If enough of it leaks, it could easily cause a fire.

Cars are already recalled for fuel line issues now. Pressurized hydrogen gas is much harder to contain than liquid petrochemical fuel. Materials, construction, and safety engineering are much more involved, and costly for hydrogen. Ask NASA about handling rocket fuel and 0-ring seals.

Lithium fueled fires spread very quickly, and burn at or above 1500 degrees F. That flash ignites a lot of other material in the area, pretty darn quick. Lithium is efficient at storing energy, but it is also good at discharging it, even through combustion, if that is what is available to it.

Even little RC cars and planes and toys come with warnings about over-discharging, over-charging, not balance charging, or puncturing lithium batteries. Toys and personal devices like cell phones and laptops are not subjected to the heat, cold, and impact that cars are potentially subject to, especially in an accident.

People's houses have burned from lithium hobby batteries catching on fire, WITHOUT and external ignition source aside from being plugged into a charger, or having the outer casing damaged.

I am skeptical about putting that sort of a battery in a location that is vulnerable to the destruction potential of a car accident. Cars are getting safer to survive in accidents, in terms of kinetic energy dissipation. Airbags and crumple-zones do no good if you are much more likely to be inside an inferno.]]>Jan 14th 2008 2:19AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
A secondary benefit (which could also be considered a liability in another sense) is that hydrogen gives off almost no heat when burning (that is to say, it burns extremely hot, but just inches away from the flame, there is almost no heat). So, if it is indeed burning, unless you are directly in the flame you will not get burned yourself. Of course, the flip side is that since hydrogen flame is very nearly invisible and gives off almost no heat inches from the flame, it is quite possible to not even know there is a fire and therefore accidentally burn yourself just by accidentally moving into the flame.

Li Ion batteries are another subject. Consumer versions of the batteries are notoriously unstable (just look at all the stories of the exploding laptops in the past year). I do recall, however, seeing a demonstration of some Li Ion batteries that were slated to go into a vehicle that were engineered to not explode. There are videos (on Youtube? I can't find them anymore) of these batteries being set on fire, and shot, and punctured with a nail and in each case, they did not ignite or explode. So, maybe they are better now. I dunno.

My biggest fear with an electric car is that in an accident that the battery pack will short itself on the frame of the car (or some other metal) and that when you reach up to open the door you will be killed by an intense electric shock (or that the rescue services will be injured when trying to use the jaws of life). Still, all things being equal, I would feel marginally safer in an electric/hydrogen car than a gasoline powered one.

My 2 cents.]]>Jan 14th 2008 5:09AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 3:12AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 9:36PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
The numbers don't jive, IMHO.]]>Jan 14th 2008 9:42PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
Over 100 billion cubic feet of Hydrogen are used in US industry every year.

BMW has done extensive crash testing to prove the safety of hydrogen vehicles, they have tested their hydrogen tanks in a series of accident simulations that included collision, fire and tank ruptures. The hydrogen cars fared better then conventional gasoline vehicles. When a hydrogen tank is ruptured the hydrogen quickly escapes harmlessly up into the atmosphere. Hydrogen also burns quickly, and must have the right ration of oxygen to hydrogen in order to be flammable, (a seven to one ratio) pure hydrogen is not flammable.

In 2001 the myth of the hydrogen car fire was proved pretty moot by a University of Miami demonstration.

This thing looks pretty sweet, the sooner, the better.]]>Jan 14th 2008 6:39AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
The Hindenburg explosion might have been caused due to sabotage.]]>Jan 15th 2008 12:28AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 6:59AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/>> You've got a keen eye, John. This design is extremely aerodynamic. In fact if you look at the vehicle true profile photo the vehicle's overall design is very similar to that of a cross-section of an airplane's wing.

In theory, perhaps this vehicle could indeed handle well and achieve substantial mileage at highway speeds without the use of a spoiler.

I applaud the company's effort for looking forward to alternative fuel poerplants and efficient designs. For that they get a big thumbs up.
]]>Jan 14th 2008 1:10PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/Jan 14th 2008 10:33AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
I like the Art Deco designs... but the front is a tad over the top. Overall a great design study. Yea, they're playing catch-up to GM on the whole 40mile range bit, but hey - if the Volt does what it's supposed to, everyone will be playing catchup.

Overall I like it. The technology is interesting, but yes - they obviously would do all sorts of crash and accident testing to see what would happen.]]>Jan 14th 2008 10:39AMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
1) Because it’s completely dated.
2) The Goodyear Blimps uses Hydrogen which hasn't had a catastrophe event in how many years?

This has been pointed out many times; yet again must be repeated. Fuel currently (Gas) used in vehicles is most volatile substance in cars today.

Yet unless you drive a Pinto would you be endanger of an exploding from a tap on the bumper or a fender bender at the local Safeway. All fuel tanks are either well protected or insulated or isolated for any danger areas in the vehicle. So let come-up with a better reason why we don't have a better hydrogen infrastructure. Like no will from politician to stand up to big oil. Or companies like to promise this but will never deliver such a system.

I.e.: like flying cars or atomic cars or jet turbine cars.

All Pie in the sky.
]]>Jan 14th 2008 3:13PMhttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-chrysler-ecovoyager-concept-lands/
Actually they use Helium.
]]>Jan 14th 2008 5:25PM