Thanks to CAFE, Detroit three (finally) embrace diesels
Diesel vehicles have nearly a 50-percent market share in Europe, thanks to tax incentives and diesel-friendly legislation across the EU. Diesels are so passé there that you can buy a BMW 730d and no one will think it odd that your luxury car burns oil. Pull up in a diesel 7-Series in America and people would leer at you like you've alighted from an amphibious vehicle reeking of saltwater and dead trout.
But now, thanks to the oft-reported combo of newly-raised CAFE standards, not-so-newly-raised gas prices, and the 50-state diesel engine, GM, Ford, and Chrysler are about to dip more than a hesitant toe into the diesel game. Chrysler offers a diesel in the Grand Cherokee, but soon all three automakers will offer diesels in their best-selling lineups of light trucks -- the Dodge Ram 1500 is expected to offer a 50-state diesel after 2009. Light trucks are being used to lead the charge since those buyers stand to gain the most with the least amount of (perceived) sacrifice.
Diesels currently have 3.2-percent of the American market. Some estimates put them at 15-percent by 2015. That's a huge leap, and diesel still has plenty of hurdles. Diesels will come with a cost premium over gasoline-engined cars. That should be easy enough to conquer -- incentives and some quick cost and longevity calculations should convince people of the benefit. The real hurdle is the nagging issue of perception. The plan will probably be to attack that with a price that makes the proposition unbeatable. Said Chrysler's director of environmental affairs, "If it's priced right, we can sell diesel here. Diesel can give you an immediate poke in fuel economy -- 20 to 40 percent. Not many technologies can deliver that today."
[Source: Detroit News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
ATL 8:36AM (1/02/2008)
The "nagging issue" is no just the premium on the vehicle. In my neck of the woods (NJ), diesel costs approximately $0.40 more per gallon the regular gasoline. Any "perceived" savings due to 20 to 40 percent better gas mileage is null and void. I'd be happy with a turbocharged V6 torque monster in a sport compact, but not at current diesel prices.
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Owain Ozymandias Buck 8:51AM (1/02/2008)
Let's do the math: If we get 20% better MPG, then we get the equivalent of 1.2 gallons of gas for every gallon of diesel. At $2.85 a gallon, that means $3.42 worth. More value than the cost of diesel. At a 40% improvement, the value equivalent jumps to $3.99 worth per gallon, much more than the price of diesel.
If the added cost of the diesel drivetrain can be held down, you will gain some economy.
That's not even considering how much better a truck is doing what a truck is meant to do when it's equipped with a diesel. But that's just my opinion there!
mike 8:53AM (1/02/2008)
I read on Tengears (few weeks ago) that diesel was at $3.44 nationaly over $3.06 for gasoline. So to begin with diesel starts on the wrong side of the tracks. Once you'll add its image (ruined for everyone by Detroit)...and you'll have a big bubcus on your plate.
http://www.tengears.com/home/2007/12/5/baaaaaad-news-for-diesel.html
However the new CAFE standards have finally forced Detroit to think outside the box.
ATL 10:51AM (1/02/2008)
Using your example, I'm saving $0.17 per gallon using diesel. Assuming 25 mpg gasoline vs. 30 mpg diesel, driving 15,000 miles per year saves me a whopping $85 per year!
As you stated, unless diesel costs THE SAME or less than gasoline, it is not going to save you money.
Diesel is expensive because we can't refine as much diesel in the US as gasoline. The more diesel vehicles we sell, the bigger the problem. If more Americans buy diesel, the price difference will be even higher. The petroleum industry will always be 10 years behind the times. As demand for diesel increases, the price will rise, and not come down for years. They will not produce more.
ATL 10:52AM (1/02/2008)
Using your example, I'm saving $0.17 per gallon using diesel. Assuming 25 mpg gasoline vs. 30 mpg diesel, driving 15,000 miles per year saves me a whopping $85 per year!
As you stated, unless diesel costs THE SAME or less than gasoline, it is not going to save you money.
Diesel is expensive because we can't refine as much diesel in the US as gasoline. The more diesel vehicles we sell, the bigger the problem. If more Americans buy diesel, the price difference will be even higher. The petroleum industry will always be 10 years behind the times. As demand for diesel increases, the price will rise, and not come down for years. They will not produce more.
psarhjinian 11:09AM (1/02/2008)
Diesel costs more because it takes more fuel to make a volumetric unit of diesel as opposed to gasoline. It also weighs more (and, accordingly, is more enegy dense). It's not the free ride that most people seem to think it is.*
Diesel costs less in Europe because European manufacturers make more diesels. The diesel tax benefit is protectionism designed to favour the manufacturers of primaril diesel cars (who, shockingly, all happen to be European) over companies that make mostly gasoline-powered cars (Asians, usually).
Now that Toyota and Honda are making very good diesels, I'd expect this to go away and that the percentage of diesels in use in France and Germany will begin to resemble that of, say, Switzerland (which doesn't have an automotive industry and doesn't have a need to mollycoddle diesel engine makers).
* (you also have to think about the increased cost and complexity of adding a high-strength block, turbocharger, ultra-high-pressure fuel injection system and complex emissions system when considering diesel. A modern TDI much more complex than your granddad's veg-oil-burning Mercedes 300E from the early 80s)
Temple 11:57AM (1/02/2008)
Not only is diesel more expensive then gasoline, there is a several thousand dollar cost premium of a diesel engine to that of a similarly powered gasoline engine. This cost premium increases when diesel particulate filters or urea injection are added.
Diesel fuel has more crude oil then gasoline by volume. In the past, when crude oil prices were down, diesel used to be cheaper then gasoline due to the fact if required less processing then gasoline. Today, the processing cost is less then the added cost of crude oil in diesel fuel. The gap in diesel prices should grow as crude oil prices increase.
In Europe, diesel fuel is significantly cheaper then gasoline due to less taxation on diesels. US legislation currently isn't diesel friendly. Future energy solutions will require a diversity of fuels (there is no 'winner' fuel).
Matt Keller 2:56PM (1/02/2008)
ATL, what sort of gas car gets 25 miles to-the-gallon and its diesel counterpart only gets 30? You're really thick.
If a diesel only got 30 mpg, it would be around 12-15 in the gas version. More than enough savings. A Jetta Sportwagen Diesel would get around 50 or so on the highway.
ATL 7:03PM (1/02/2008)
Matt , as quoted in the article:
Said Chrysler's director of environmental affairs, "If it's priced right, we can sell diesel here. Diesel can give you an immediate poke in fuel economy -- 20 to 40 percent. Not many technologies can deliver that today."
A 20% improvement on 25 mpg is 30 mpg. At the extreme, a 40% increase would be 35 mpg. Using your silly example, a 30 mpg diesel would be a 100 - 150% improvement over a 12 - 15 mpg gas equivalent.
Prior to calling others thick, you may wish to look in the mirror, or else risk sounding ignorant.
MemphisNET 8:37AM (1/02/2008)
Hahaha I just posted on the Prius topic that American vendors are terrified of diesels! I'm glad I'm wrong... because personally I would love the Euro-only 300C Touring (Wagon) with a diesel!
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mike 9:24AM (1/02/2008)
300C Wagon? You mean DODGE MAGNUM?
Frylock350 10:07AM (1/02/2008)
No there is a 300C Wagon sold in Europe as the Dodge brand isn't sold there. Its a Magnum with a 300 front end and 300 interior.
Your mindless domestic hate gets annoying fast.
MemphisNET 10:28AM (1/02/2008)
Thankyou... and agreed.
DanMan 8:44AM (1/02/2008)
Forget CAFE. For all the beneficial reasons from MPG to torque the Detroit 3 (and all other US manufacturers) should have embraced the light duty diesel years ago. I know GM f#$%ed it up in the 80s with a half-cocked attempt but now is the time to try again.
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BowserUSC 8:43AM (1/02/2008)
I just want a damn diesel car already. I really dont get why American's are so hesitant about them.
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Dad 9:51AM (1/02/2008)
Why do you single out Detroit? Show me my Nissan diesel? Toyota diesel? Mazda diesel? Same for Infiniti, Lexus, Subaru, etc.
Mr. Oak 9:47AM (1/02/2008)
Pollution is the reason. Imagine 1 million additional diesel cars/SUVs added to the hundreds of thousands of diesels that already ply the streets of 33.77 sq. mile Manhattan. Even with the gains from low sulphur "clean" diesel, life in NYC would be horrible. Same goes for LA. Elsewhere, I don't have a problem with diesels.
BowserUSC 9:51AM (1/02/2008)
That's funny, the 2 places you named are where I live. So I'd be driving a diesel in LA or NY if I bought one.
BowserUSC 9:53AM (1/02/2008)
@Dad
By american's I meant people who live in america, not detroit. In my experience most people are overly afraid of diesel for little reason whatsoever.
RMc 10:46AM (1/02/2008)
In response to Mr. Oak's reply that diesels pollute more than gasoline.
Take my Euro Accord 2.4L gasoline vs. 2.2L diesel example below:
2.2L Diesel:
-CO2: 145 g/km
-CO: 0.176 g/km
-NOx: 0.179 g/km
-HC + NOx: 0.198 g/km
-Particulates: 0.033
Gasoline:
-CO2: 214 g/km
-CO: 0.560 g/km
-NOx: 0.009 g/km
-HC: 0.033 g/km
-Particulate: 0
As I just showed from EU and UK DfT data, gasoline pollutes more carbon based emissions and diesel pollutes more NOx. Simple as that. Diesel particulates is also near zero.
Speak with facts rather than opinion.