Filed under: Minivans/MPVs, Etc., Chrysler, LLC., Dodge, Honda
Dodge in danger of losing #1 minivan title
The moral of a certain African tale is: no matter whether you're the lion or the gazelle, when you get up every morning you better be ready to run. That counts for rams, as well. One of Chrysler LLC's most profitable divisions is getting run down in a historically dominant specialty: minivans. The Dodge Caravan (and Grand Caravan), specifically, is in danger of losing its best selling minivan title to the Honda Odyssey.The Detroit Free Press reports that year-to-date, Dodge has sold 154,824 Caravans, which is a 21.4-percent decline from last year. Part of that has been explained with the arrival of a new model and the elimination of the cheaper, short wheelbase version. Honda meanwhile has sold 158,139 Odysseys so far this year, which is only a 2.3-percent decline from last year. Honda also has a new version of the Odyseey this year, introduced in August, and has outsold Dodge for the past six months -- which means the new model picked up where the old one left its marker.
Follow the jump for more.
[Source: Detroit Free Press]
Gallery: 2008 Dodge Caravan
Gallery: 2008 Honda Odyssey
They have both used incentives to get metal moving: Honda more than $1,500 per vehicle, Dodge more than $2,700. One should also note that if you added sales of the Chrysler Town & Country to Dodge's total, the combined sales of the two sister vehicles would easily beat out the Odyssey's numbers. Dodge and its dealers, however, aren't worried. A J.D. Power analyst said that the Caravan is still gathering sales steam, and hasn't had the necessary availability to keep up with demand. Dealers expect the Dodge Journey to replace the lost sales of the short wheelbase Caravan -- although we don't know how that would count toward minivan sales... With 21 days left in the year, 24 years of market leadership is on the line for Dodge. If you have a big red Boost Sales button in there somewhere, Dodge, now is the time to press it.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Todd 1:26PM (12/10/2007)
The dollar is in danger of becoming second to the euro, too.
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Pauls45 2:29PM (12/10/2007)
Some of you may remember Dan Neil's LA Times) rather glowing review of the new Chrysler Town & Country Limited.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/la-hy-neil17oct17,0,6309000.story?coll=la-home-middleright
Plus WSJ called Town&Country in their review the best $35k vehicle you can buy
Pauls45 2:35PM (12/10/2007)
WSJ revies
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118911195022019743.html
"Perhaps this analysis is a bit harsh, but it's not for nothing that this segment is called "near luxury." Truly, the vehicles are nearer to common, ordinary transportation. This makes it fitting -- and deliciously ironic -- that the best $35,000 vehicle on the market would be a minivan. Surely no one who plunks down that same amount on something like the laughable Jaguar X-Type sedan (a low-budget Ford in disguise) would agree, but it's likely he or she has never driven the 2008 Chrysler Town & Country Limited either.
Calling it the "Cadillac of minivans" would be true to the spirit of the phrase"
Russell 12:23AM (12/11/2007)
More like the World is in danger of loosing Chrysler.
Ba-by Chrysler.
John R 1:33PM (12/10/2007)
I've seen 3 odysseys when i went out to lunch. I don't care for minivans, but it seems that the honda would be more fun to drive.
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Frank 1:35PM (12/10/2007)
I don't think this is such a big deal since Chrysler also sells the TC and VW will soon be selling a minivan based off of Chrysler's. Honda only has the Odyssey. When you add all of them up Chrylsler still sells way more than anyone else. By the way, for the same reason GM sells more full size pickups than Ford because the GMC is the same as Chevy and in most years they sell more combined than Ford.
Also, has anyone stopped to think that at least some of the sales (I say 50%) of the Pacifica CUV would have been a Chyrsler minivan if that vehicle had not been offered?
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icu812ru469 1:44PM (12/10/2007)
That's a bad assumption that Pacific buyers would jump to Chrysler minivan. I think the Pacifica buyer doesn't want a "minivan" which is why they opted for the Pacifica. Also, the Pacifica was pretty much a leftover Mercedes powertrain and underpinning, so that added to the "desire" for it. I would say if anything, most of the Pacifica would have gone foreign, if nothing else.
Die you POS Caravan. We had a Voyager back in '84, died after 75K. We were so dumb to then get a '90 Grand Voyager and that died 110K. Never went back and so so glad we did not... it seems the '99 are not much better, my brother-in-law was dumb enough to get one, died 95K. Hideous numbers when you consider most cars, even other domestics, run to 150K easily nowadays. Can't wait until Chryslter pays out the arse with their "lifetime" warranty and these pieces of junk start falling apart on them. Eat bolts Chrysler !!!!
PeakVT 2:23PM (12/10/2007)
"Also, the Pacifica was pretty much a leftover Mercedes powertrain and underpinning, so that added to the "desire" for it."
Completely wrong. The Pacifica is a chopped down RS-series minivan, and uses standard C engines.
Of course, if DCX conned idiots into thinking it was "German engineering" that's another thing.
Frank 2:28PM (12/10/2007)
It's not a bad assumption. That's I why I said 50% not 100%. That's still lost sales to the minvan.
Most people who bought a Pacifica never new it had any Mercedes components in it. They probably didn't know how many cylinders the engine had (and it's a Chrylser, not a Mercedes engine).
Tim 1:42PM (12/10/2007)
Apart from "#1" titles, does Dodge care if the Journey would "count toward minivan sales"? The biggest problem in this sector for Chrysler/Dodge with the T&C, Grand Caravan, and Journey isn't the sales crown or how AutoBlog divides it. It's the fact that companies like Honda and Toyota are able to sell their vehicles for so many more dollars. Customers see a lower MSRP at the Chrysler dealership while also demanding more cashback in incentives. Forget who #1 is. The Dodge Caravan is perceived to be cheaper and customers expect it to be so.
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Frank 1:53PM (12/10/2007)
That's why you should never buy new. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. For the used buyer there is no 12g loss. And the depreciation after that will be at a far less rate.
seoultrain 2:40PM (12/10/2007)
Frank, try building a justification for buying a used mini cooper or mazda3. there are cars out there that depreciate so slowly that it's worth the small additional cost to buy a car that has a full warranty and that you know has never been treated harshly or ill-maintained.
Brent 1:49PM (12/10/2007)
They didn't even bother to clean that van. Look at the floors, nasty!
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Tired 1:49PM (12/10/2007)
With dealer discount and factory incentives, only the clueless are paying MSRP on these vehicles.
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seoultrain 1:52PM (12/10/2007)
chrysler lost the minivan battle in terms of quality almost a decade ago.
They lost the minivan battle in terms of profit likely around 5 years ago.
They probably lost it in terms of revenue in the last several years.
This is just an inevitability.
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seoultrain 1:55PM (12/10/2007)
sorry, need to clarify that "profit" above means profit per vehicle.
jim 1:52PM (12/10/2007)
Put the Town and Country and the Caravan together and they still smoke the Honda. no big Deal.
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tanooki2003 2:35PM (12/10/2007)
It's more like they will belch light blue smoke out from the exhaust sooner than the Honda due th their trouble with manufacturing good quality piston rings like all of the other previous generations going back to 84.
Frank 3:11PM (12/10/2007)
The only thing making light blue smoke around here Tanooki is what you're smoking. You have probably never owned a Chryco minivan. And even if you did and it had problems, you can't make a statistical claim where n=1.
You do know that Honda's have had reliability problems in the past with there transmissions. You do know that don't you?
tanooki2003 4:01PM (12/10/2007)
Nice try my ignorant little flamer.
My parents owned an 86 Dodge caravan which started smoking after 45K, stalling, and having transmission slippage. Before you add more ignorance my parents have always changed the oil every 2500 miles and the transmission fluid every other oil change. They always took great care of it. After 3 years my parents traded it in for an 89 with the V6 and that was even worse. That started smoking after 57K and the transmission dropped. The company would not help with the replacement and ended up costing them $1200. It dropped again after only putting 9K miles on it. The engine also ended up breaking the piston rings in cylinders 2, 5, and 6, which caused a very horrible mess. I remembered us being stranded out on the highway many miles from the closest rest stop and city. Luckily a nice couple helped us out and took us into the city where we were able to get that POS towed. Too bad Honda did not have an affordable minivan at that time period.
Now you trying to make Chrysler sound like they are a very solid company and Honda is just plain junk is total baloney. Maybe you should research about the huge transmission issues and other reliability issues. that Chrysler had in the late 80's to mid 90's. Compared to some issues that Honda had in the past does not even come close to all of the reliability issues that Chrysler had and even to this day have yet to still acknowledge. Just google Chrysler's minivan reliability issues and you will be surprised of the number of former owners who have blogs telling the world about their nightmares of ownership.
Remember Frank a mind, no matter how small, is a terrible thing to waste.