More details have come to the fore about the ongoing development of a lightweight sports car birthed from the union of Toyota and Subaru. Our friends over at 7Tune were kind enough to translate the finer points of an article in Daily Car, and the one burning question -- what platform the new coupe would be derived from -- has been answered.
A test mule has been spotted running around Toyota's test track in Toyota City, built off a shortened Subaru Legacy chassis and powered by the firm's SOHC two-liter flat-four. Although the mule's underpinnings are currently derived from the Legacy's (with about 200mm lopped off), it's expected that a version of the Impreza 15S's platform will be used instead. This gives credence to the idea that the new coupe will send power to the rear wheels, as the AWD chassis could be modified to be exclusively RWD. Currently, the test car is running the all-wheel driveline with the front drive shafts removed.
Subaru's 108 HP 1.5-liter boxer (EL15) is likely to be used to power the new coupe, apparently due to the rear differential's fragility and Toyota's aim of making the coupe as fuel efficient as possible. While barely cresting the 100 HP mark won't set the spec sheet ablaze, the fact that the vehicle will tip the scales at 1,100 kg (2,425 lbs.) should make it a competent performer in the same way as its AE86 forbearer.
If Toyota can keep the weight down (a constant challenge), while keeping the price below 2,000,000 yen, it's rumored that we could see the coupe make its debut sometime next year, with sales beginning later in 2008.
[Source: 7Tune]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
dc @ Sep 26th 2007 4:17PM
interesting...but at 108hp this won't sell in the states... why not give it the 1.6L from the old celica...170hp and 2400 lbs in a lively chassis would be scorching!
Damon Lavrinc @ Sep 26th 2007 4:24PM
It wouldn't be feasible to retrofit an inline four into the space occupied by a boxer. Plus, with the weight that low to the ground, it will pay dividends in the driving dept.
Richard @ Sep 26th 2007 6:26PM
The greater weight, longer length and higher center of gravity of an I-4 would certainly adversely affect the dynamics of the whole affair.
Why would you want to do that?
Rob @ Sep 26th 2007 10:43PM
and it was a 1.8L
Carlos @ Sep 26th 2007 4:18PM
That power level is fine for most markets (actually it's a lot). But not here. Toyota caved in to everyone who felt the Scions xA and xB were too slow, and they had similar power/weight ratios. Basically it'll limit the price point at which the car can sell here in the US... if it's cheap, that power level is acceptable but there will still be complaints.
If the rear differential doesn't allow a 1.8L or forced induction option, there will be BIG complaints!
naggs @ Sep 26th 2007 4:20PM
can anyone say STI swap?
Owain Ozymandias Buck @ Sep 26th 2007 4:21PM
A little over 22 lbs./hp doesn't sound like good acceleration. This thing needs at least 140 hp. It still sounds pretty neat though.
I'm not thrilled about the supposedly weak rear end. This would kill thoughts of easy forced induction power adders. Maybe they have a beefier unit in the plans for the production model?
But heck, light weight and RWD--I'll settle for that!
Alex @ Sep 26th 2007 4:34PM
How hard would it be to use the diff from a WRX? That engine puts out something in the range of 230 hp, and the kids love to pump that engine up to silly levels. Clearly the WRX's diff can take the added loads.
108hp is pretty weak but for the show and no folk (think V6 Mustang buyers) thats fine. I think they should just offer a stronger engine in an "S" trim.
Sean Flanagan @ Sep 26th 2007 4:56PM
The weak rear diff to me is utter nonsense. Subaru and Toyota both have halfway decent relationships with Cusco, which not only make beefed up diffs for Subarus, but raced a RWD Impreza in the JGTC before the rules allowed AWD. Cusco could easily supply the diffs (or at least the design) for this car and allow it to work even with the turbocharged 2.5l H-4 in the STi. Or another supplier like ZF or Bosch could provide a diff. It's a lame excuse to use so Toyota can claim the car is the most fuel-efficient FR vehicle in the world.
naggs @ Sep 27th 2007 1:29PM
of course they can find a diff that will be able to hold up to higher tq levels but not at the price
that is the reason for the 1.5, if you have a bigger engine, you need a bigger transmission, clutch, driveshaft, rear diff, half shafts. all that adds weight and cost both of which need to be kept low more than power needs to be kept high. dont forget that more power means you need bigger brakes which means you need larger wheels and tires and on and on.
more weight means more weight, less weight means less weight.
Steve_S @ Sep 26th 2007 4:37PM
100hp you gotta be kidding me? Even if its 2,000 lbs that isn’t going to be enough. You’ll have at best another MR2, nice concept but underpowered with weak handling. A Mazda MX5 has what 160-170hp and is 2,500 and while it handles very well it’s a tad on the slow side.
mike @ Sep 26th 2007 10:49PM
This is why we don't get high miler cars here. You wacko's "needing" more horsepower. Where in your stop and go commutes in heavy traffic?
Give Me a break already.
I want a 50mpg sports car. Great Handling, Great Brakes and Great Gas Mileage.
If I can only use 40hp from my current 167 hp engine, I don't think I actually need a 167 or higher hp engine.
Sheesh. America NEEDS a HP-in-Use gauge.
Scott @ Sep 29th 2007 9:27PM
Mike,
A sports car without power is like a nice stereo system playing an 8-track cassette.
Sudasian @ Sep 26th 2007 4:46PM
It amazes me that a car heavier, more expensive, and less powerful than it's previous incarnation is going to make it to market. Honestly, who is this car going to appeal to? Performance nuts and ricers will see it as a fat and slow car with a crappy engine, and the fuel economy and storage space are going to be crap since it's RWD. Unless there's a higher trim level with a better engine, it's going to be a flop.
naggs @ Sep 27th 2007 12:02AM
if its done right it will get 35 mpg, costs under 15k and be fun to drive...
that will sell. it sounds like it is going to have almost the exact same specs as a gen 1 miata and they sold plenty of those. the main difference being that this will seat 4 and have a roof and some storage...
it will sell in the US or anywhere else it is sold
remy @ Sep 26th 2007 4:50PM
Better be cheap!
akatsuki @ Sep 26th 2007 4:55PM
That weak rear diff will kill the car, tuners won't want anything to do with it, and even though most people who buy it may just want to slap a big wing and stickers on it, the tuners give it "authenticity". The base hp is fine if it is light enough.
Matt @ Sep 26th 2007 5:09PM
So is this Toyota's Interesting Car Committee's big plan? If so, I can say I'm throughly disappointed. The other Japanese manufacturers have great cars coming- the NSX, the GT-R, but not Toyota, unless you count the Lexus LF-A, but thats more luxury than performance.
SPG @ Sep 26th 2007 5:25PM
I like it.
Tio @ Sep 26th 2007 5:27PM
wait a second. The tag line is "sports car" this isnt a "sports car" at 108 hp. A recreation of the old 2 door Corolla maybe, but not a "sports" car. The old Corolla 2 doors were fun and a pretty solid platform to add power to. Even if they do not add more hp from the factory they should make sure the rear end holds up to extra power.