Filed under: Spy Photos, Sedans/Saloons, Sports/GTs, BMW
Spy Shots: Twin-turbo M5 and M7 prototypes
Will the M5 get a twin-turbo and be joined by an M7? Mr. Lehmann and Co. have caught an M5 and a 7-Series with extra ventage. It's hypothesized that Audi has understated the RS6's pony count, telling the world it's 580 when it's actually 600. And now with both Mercedes and Audi outdoing the M in the horsepower war, the theory is that that's an insult BMW simply cannot allow. Hence the addition of double-barrel blowers to equalize the equation.
As for the possibility of an M7, all there is to see are a large scoop at the front of the hood and two smaller scoops at the rear. With years of AMG S-Classes and Audi S8's behind us, if there is an M7 on the way, all we can say is: it's about time.
[Source: World Can Fans]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
toyota_luver 6:41PM (9/11/2007)
LOL at BMW! For a company that existed on Real Motor's that were naturally aspirated while badmouthing Audi for Turbocharging, now they want to switch sides to forced induction... They also now have AWD available in their 5 series and 3 series... Rumor has it that they are developing a new car to compete with their Mini Cooper that will have FWD....
BMW is doing everything against what they have existed on while discounting other makes' technologies, and now...
Hypocrites...
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YouFaceTheTick 6:44PM (9/11/2007)
Not a shock. They realized with the 3.0 TT that they could get extreme power and torque - which is lacking in M engines - with just some turbos. TT V10 might help an engine super low on torque.
Rob 7:03PM (9/11/2007)
Why would BMW want to compete with Mini?
robz4 7:20PM (9/11/2007)
Have you driven the 335i or 535i ( twin turbo inline six) ? There is not turbo lag at all ( the main reason BMW stayed away from turbos for so long) Besides that the new turbo technolgy coupled with direct injection allows the BMW engine to achieve much better fuel economy and very high power.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/09/bmw-wins-third-international-engine-of-the-year-award-in-a-row/
I don't see any contradiction with the BMW approach to driving dynamics by using turbos now.Besides that the 2002ti turbo of the 70's was one of the best examples of BMW turbo technology for road cars( before any Audi )
In regards to RWD and AWD BMW never denied the advantages of AWD in certain driving conditions ( deep snow for example) and they had AWD in others markets for years. Get your facts straight before you open your mouth.
Robert 7:50PM (9/11/2007)
Ok, there's any number of BMW fans that yearn for the modern equivalent of the E30 M3 and have no need for the Audi and AMG imitators. Still, the Cayenne doesn't make the Cayman any less of a car just as the X3 doesn't keep the E90 from being the best sports sedan.
I can't help but think that a Camry owner's envy for passionate cars prompted your post.
rmc 12:42AM (9/12/2007)
Are you ok. BMW basically invented turbocharging on road-going cars back in 70's (don't even start with Oldsmobile Cutlass Jetfire).
toyota_luver 6:49PM (9/11/2007)
I guess to keep up, they are forced in that direction. But still, I really respected their non-turbocharging philosophy. They used big naturally aspirated motors that could rev high and perform very well. All the news with them jumping the fence and joining their competitors is highly disconcerting.
Kevin 6:46PM (9/11/2007)
Hopefully the speculation is correct... After all, there is no such thing as too much horsepower, just not enough traction.
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paul 6:52PM (9/11/2007)
the hood on the M5 also sits about 1 cm higher...maybe to accomodate for the twin turbos? but if you twin turbo an engine that already puts out 500 bhp, what will you get? a 700bhp monster??
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toyota_luver 7:31PM (9/11/2007)
Robz4 you - yourself should get your facts straight before you talk. Yes as a matter of fact, I have driven the 335. It drives fine, but it had it's share of problems initially - namely overheating. BMW does not have the experience or heritage with turbocharging that Audi has so if you want to compare a car built in 2007 to the old "2002" from 1968-76 then go right ahead. Obviously, they didn;t have it spot on since an oil cooler was added later to cope with the heat.
You can't deny that all of the M cars to date are NATURALLY ASPIRATED and they have the free-reving nature that complements that technology. If BMW truly believed in what it has, it wouldn't resort to having to use something that differentiates it from it's competitors. For it to start making a Mini-sized vehicle under the 1-series that uses FWD is absolutely hysterical. FWD is a slap in the fact to those of us that respected BMW for sticking to RWD. The BMW AWD system isn't all that great either, and they should stick with what they know. I'm sure a V12 could be dropped into that M5 just as easily and even normally aspirated would produce 500bhp w/o a sweat...
Josh 7:25PM (9/11/2007)
Fake. They aren't in the right spot and don't fit with the car at all. Even if it is a test mule they would have disguised it much better since this would be huge news.
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gus 8:09PM (9/11/2007)
It's not the right spot?? Where are you suppose to put your side mounted intercoolers? On the roof?
andrew 7:54PM (9/11/2007)
Thats a crap photoshop job
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Level 9:06PM (9/11/2007)
If the Benz can NA a v8 with 513hp Chevy can NA a v8 with 505hp and Dodge of all brands can NA a v10 with 600hp and still be detune without any of those cars resorting to turbos or superchargers, what in the name does that tell me about BMW only able to get 500bhp out of its v10? I think they are starting to lack on engine design and ingenuity....
And yes BMW is a hypocrite badmouthing turbos and superchargers.....
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paul 9:22PM (9/11/2007)
the HP/liter crown is still held by BMW. 100HP/L from the M5/6, 110 (correct me if im wrong) from the CSL. Even if its a V10, it has less displacement than a viper engine which has around 8.3L
Justin 9:51PM (9/11/2007)
paul, that may be true to an extent, but for me, the meaning of peak hp/L loses its meaning when there are no benefits in powerband, weight, mpg, and simplicity/cost to a larger displacement engine. I personally think hp/lb of engine weight is a better figure to compare to.
Bill 9:37PM (9/11/2007)
"the HP/liter crown is still held by BMW. 100HP/L from the M5/6, 110 (correct me if im wrong) from the CSL. Even if its a V10, it has less displacement than a viper engine which has around 8.3L"
that 100hp/l doesn't hold the crown.... not even close...
even if you're talking about NA engines, look at something like the Acura RSX Type-s... 210hp/2.0 litres = 105hp/l...
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paul 10:38PM (9/11/2007)
Technically, the 120hp/l from the S2000 is the highest hp/liter out there. BUT considering that it has 151lb-ft of torque, we can all agree that its not that great of an engine.
Still to get back on topic, I personally think this is a hoax. Looking at how well BMW covered up the 7 series and the X6 and even the m3, seeing a "naked" turbo M5 seems a little...off
Hollis 9:43PM (9/11/2007)
A lot of people on here are quite comical. BMW themselves have said that with a bit of mild tuning that the new S85 (the V10 in the M5/M6) is capable of 700bhp in N/A form. Hell, back in 1988, before all this mumbo about variable valve timing, variable intake tuning, and the like, M division were able to get 360bhp out of a 2.5l four cylinder! You can build a streetable 2.5l S14 that can pack 260-275bhp. Not bad for a twenty year old engine design! You have to remember, these are the guys that built the 6.1l V12 in the McLaren F1 that's good for just over 1,000bhp Naturally Aspirated!
Plus, M division explicitly said that they'd never build an M7 or an M-X5. They came close building that X5 with the V12 from the LMP1 car, but that's it.
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MikeW 2:11PM (9/12/2007)
The V10 might be able to do 700hp@10,000rpm. That would be fine for a manufacturer sponsored race series.
A 2.5 that makes 260-275hp might be 'streetable' to you, but not to BMW or the EPA.
The S70/2 V12 making over 1000hp, No. Not even 1000hp. Maybe really souped up with state of the art technology, and short service life & very cammy 750hp@9000.
Maybe BMW will drop the V8 from the M3, use the V10.
A twin turbo flat plane crank V8 with 600hp for the M5.
and a large V12 for the M7, 700hp, no less.
or an extra 50hp for all.