Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Etc., Chevrolet, GM, Toyota
Toyota takes a shot at Chevy Volt
The continuous battle of one-upmanship between industry giants GM and Toyota continues, this time in regards to a future wave of plug-in hybrid vehicles due by towards the end of the decade. In one corner is Toyota, which will be sticking with its current hybrid system but modifying the technology to feature a household charger system. In the other corner is GM, which is developing a new, series-hybrid architecture it calls E-Flex. Already displayed in concept form, E-Flex features an all-electric drivetrain and has a backup powerplant (gasoline, diesel or even fuel-cell) that's used solely to charge the batteries.
One of Toyota's execs, Kazuo Okamoto, has come out boasting that his company's current parallel hybrid system, where both an internal combustion engine, as well as an electric motor, can drive the car, is the superior solution. According to Okamoto, after factoring in driving range, battery size, and charge time, the parallel-hybrid platform as seen in the Prius is the only logical way to go.
GM, however, has a trick up its sleeve. Following the announcement of a deal with A123Systems to develop lightweight and long-lasting lithium-ion batteries, GM may have its first E-Flex plug-in on the market by 2010. Toyota, meanwhile, has backed away from the superior battery, claiming that lithium-ion is still too dangerous and will stick with older nickel-metal hydride units instead.
[Source: Green Car Congress]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
reader 11:16AM (9/06/2007)
There is a video on youtube showing a conventional cobalt-lithium ion battery being punctured and an A123 phosphate-lithium ion battery being punctured.
The conventional liion explodes. The A123 battery smolders.
Toyota is afraid. Very afraid. Their battery supplier has bupkis, A123 has the goods (and the patents)
Good job, GM.
BTW, these A123 batteries are available TODAY, in dewalt 36 volt liion packs. hack-a-day has an article today on how to use those batts for other things...
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howard 11:33AM (9/06/2007)
TOYOTA is like any looser who is called on to give reasons why they're idea is the better one, they try every way possible to prove they're competor's way is the worst idea ever conceived even if it's a rendition of THEIR idea!
Temple 3:00PM (9/06/2007)
A123 batteries haven't been proven safe, especially when you consider vehicle applications, and the massive size that would be necessary for plug-ins (compared to a 36W powertool).
There are other advanced Li-on suppliers for cars other then A123 that are in various stages of development such as; LTC, Panasonic, Mitsui, Sharp. That would also supply batteries to Toyota (or any other manufacturer for that matter).
The main issue however, is not just safety and reliability, but also price. Hybrids are already expensive to build, Li-on will only add to the price premium.
Sometimes its best not to rush a product to market.
Don 6:35PM (9/06/2007)
Well, I'm glad GM seems to be winning the Lilon race.
Aaron 11:21AM (9/06/2007)
Toyota is getting punked on the technology front and does what any good loser does, lashes out.
they were bragging un LI Ion batteries, now that they are falling behind they become dangerous, and generally a bad idea.
Oh well, toyota's green marketing efforts have always been just that, marketing.
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spw 11:33AM (9/06/2007)
As with all other GM hybrid PR's, 2010 will come and we will hear of superior Volt coming in 2014 :-).
GM promised full hybrids in 2004, then 2006 and now in 2007 (which wont happen, again)...
Meanwhile Toyota sold more than 1,000,000 hybrids, and sales are up 50% year over year... ooops.
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naggs 12:40PM (9/06/2007)
any more imaginary numbers you want to hallucinate? seriously, make up more stuff IMO
reader 2:32PM (9/06/2007)
2008 Tahoe hybrid in the hands of journalists.
first full-size SUV hybrid.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120687
Sagracer 11:37AM (9/06/2007)
Toyota is starting to sound more and more like the old GM.
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John P. 11:39AM (9/06/2007)
not to mention, the volt actually looks like a car I'd want to drive.
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KC 11:42AM (9/06/2007)
The only thing that worries me about the Volt is that in production form it may look like crap.
There is no way even 50% of the concept design is going to make it into production, roof to low, inoperable windows that have no way to become operable in that form, to much glass everywhere, wheels to far towards the ends of the vehicle, no real fenders etc...
I just hope it still looks good even though it will not look much like the concept when it arrives in show rooms.
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John P. 11:50AM (9/06/2007)
I worry about that too. I hope they don't PriUSSIFY it. hmm, can I copyright that word? :p
TBSS in the D 12:08PM (9/06/2007)
My good friend works on these programs and says it can not look like it. The drag on it is way to high. If you want a HB that gets really good millage it has to be very aerodynamic like the Prius. It sucks but it is true.
BTW Good job General
naggs 2:03PM (9/06/2007)
the front axel is going to have to come back, so the front overhang will be much bigger
speedball3 11:50AM (9/06/2007)
Viva la Volt!! GM needs to get this car out ASAP and prove they can contend with (or surpass) the Prius.
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why not the LS2LS7? 12:15PM (9/06/2007)
Parallel hybrids are definitely lighter, cheaper and more efficient for any given power output level. This is because in a series hybrid in order to make the same amount of power you have to increase the size of the electric drive motors to make enough power to move the car and then increase the size of the electric generator to drive that. Also, you end up converting power from the engine into electricity and back at highway speeds.
However, a since a parallel hybrid has a smaller electric motor, it isn't workable as a vehicle that runs on solely electric power for any period of time (a plug-in hybrid).
There's room for both systems in the market. Me, I want a plug-in hybrid. I'd love to use no gas on an average day. For others who have longer commutes, or just different needs in general, they might not care about a 50 mile all-electric range.
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Dave 3:40PM (9/06/2007)
The advantage of a parallel hybrid is that the ICE that drives the generator runs at a constant RPM and load. So it can be optimized better than the ICE in a parallel hybrid.
The drawback, as you stated, is the fact that ALL power produced by the ICE is converted to electricity and then back.
The question is, can the ICE optimization make up for the inefficiency of energy conversion?
The Other Bob 12:37AM (9/07/2007)
The other advantage of the Volt system is that there is no need for a transmission. The electric motor has continuous-duty power, meaning, full power at all RPMs.
The Prius has double the parts of a Corolla. The Volt may well have less moving parts than a conventional car.
DarkKnight67 12:37PM (9/06/2007)
Sounds like Toyota has their collective panties in a bunch over someone (possibly) besting them.
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gsolman6 12:51PM (9/06/2007)
All this talk is just that. GM still has to put its product where its mouth is and to compete with the Prius it will have to deliver on price, performance, warranty, reliability, and utility. I have doubts they can deliver on all these accounts and I really doubt they will break even on it. Not to mention that GMs hybrids have been pretty lackluster so far so I wouldn't count on anything that they claim.
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