Filed under: Frankfurt Auto Show, Green, Hatchbacks, Chevrolet, Saturn, Opel
Frankfurt Preview: Details on Opel E-Flex concept with diesel range extender
by Chris Shunk on Sep 3rd 2007 at 3:54PM 
The Chevy Volt concept that debuted this past January in Detroit has generated more buzz than any concept in recent memory, mainly because of outrageous gas prices, coupled with the fact that GM is working its tail off to get one built by 2010. To generate the same level of buzz across the Atlantic, team GM is prepping an Opel version of the battery-powered green-machine. The two models will vary in design, and the Opel will likely produce electricity via a diesel powerplant instead of a small gasoline engine. The European model will also charge in about half the time of the Volt, as its 220v capability can take twice the juice as our sorry American 110v infrastructure.
Since the Volt and Opel variant are both built on GM's next generation global small car platform, there is a strong possibility that the Opel version will give hints at the design of the next generation Astra. That's important to us here in the States due to the fact that Saturn will likely sell an exact duplicate of the small car. You may have to take a few days off if you plan on keeping up with the progress at Frankfurt at the end of September, there will be a lot of news, and we plan on covering all of it.
[Source: AutoblogGreen]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Barney 5:08PM (9/03/2007)
The presumption is to assume that the VOLT will in fact be a hybrid. Perhaps in three years, the diesel will be accepted on both sides of the ocean. Perhaps GM can do as Ford, and get the technology from Toyota to speed things up.
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Du 5:48PM (9/03/2007)
Ford didn't get technology from Toyota. They created their own, and then realized that their technology weas VERY close to Toyota's so they signed some documents and paid Toyota some money so Toyota wouldn't sue them for coming up with a similar design.
Ford's hybrid tech was developed in house.
jay tee 5:56PM (9/03/2007)
Is GM supposed to license Toyota's Plug-in Tech? Li-Ion tech? Weird, I didn't think they sold any such vehicles, especially since Toyota has stated that they essentially don't want plug-ins to come into fruition anytime soon, and that their Li batteries are basically ticking time bombs and need quite a bit more development. GM's first PHEV is to come out sometime next year as part of the Vue Two-Mode Hybrid. Where is Toyota's next generation of HSD? Li-Ion batteries on the horizon?
The Volt is NOT a hybrid... It is first and foremost an electric car, that has an on board generator (whether it be diesel/biodiesel, gasoline/E85, fuel cell, etc.)... "Hybrid" states that the car is driven by both a fuelled source and a battery source.
Barney 6:09PM (9/03/2007)
A hybrid uses two sources of power to run the vehicle, even if one is to supply power to the other source of power. (Use a dictionary)
Ford did buy the technology from Toyota. That is fact. Old technology but Toyota technology. GM is also talking about "their" battery technology and the race is on. There are many "plug in" EVs todate so where's the grandiose in that?
l.i dave 8:08PM (9/03/2007)
Barney. As usual you are wrong it is a know fact that Ford paid Toyota fees to avoid litigaion, but you can keep spreading that bogus story if it makes you feel better.
As for the Volt it is not a hybrid it is a electric car with a range extender. For 40 miles it can be driven on electric power. Are you suggesting that for the first 40 miles its an electric car and then it becomes a hybrid? That doesn't make any sense.
Most of your posts reveal you to be a bitter loser who is for some odd reason bothered by GM's recent success.
Barney 9:59PM (9/03/2007)
Re:l.i dave @ Sep 3rd 2007 8:08PM
"Barney. As usual you are wrong it is a know fact that Ford paid Toyota fees to avoid litigaion,"
Oh I see. Out of the blue Ford develops the exact same technology as Toyota and in order to be good guys, they pay Toyota for their idea.
And if GM has a power system that works on two power sources, it's not call "hybrid"because they don't want to call it that. Maybe they should call it "Eflex" or some patent name. They wouldn't want to be a follower by name only. Maybe "dual mode" can be used to describe a hybrid system.
I couldn't care less by GMs "recent" success. If they start producing a reliable & economical vehicle, that will be good enough.
Dave 6:42PM (9/03/2007)
E-Flex could be a great series hybrid if GM didnt put all of those ridiculously expensive and heavy batteries in it.
EVs are useless here in New England because they don't produce waste heat for defrosting and heating.
The emmissions from an optimized small diesel engine running at constant speed and load should be relatively easy to control.
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SPG 7:24PM (9/03/2007)
Nice, as a Saturn Astra even the more snobbish car buyers would have to admit that GM has changed and changed for the better.
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Barney 7:46PM (9/03/2007)
The Astra is indeed the choice of several rental car agencies.
jay tee 9:57PM (9/03/2007)
Barney must have had a bad long weekend...
Anyways, back to the topic:
Barney:
-Ford's hybrid had some issues when applying for a patent for certain components, since Toyota already held patents for components that ended up being nearly identical... As Du said, it's cheaper for ford to license those certain parts then to risk being sued by the Almighty...
-A hybrid uses 2 or more sources to POWER the vehicle, (ie an ICE and Electric motor). By your definition, fi one source supplants the other, then technically every single gasoline vehicle on the road is a hybrid, since the battery energy and fuel energy are used to power the vehicle... The engine in the Volt is a Generator, and does not supply the electric motor with energy, but charges the batteries (ie, the engine puts out 0HP at the wheels)... at best, you can call it a Series hybrid, but even then, its not really a hybrid (would you call it a hybrid if the generator was a hydrogen fuel cell? using a hydrogen fuel cell in this setup would make it relatively identical to a regular fuel cell vehicle
-The Astra is one of the best selling and recognizable vehicles in Europe... I'd be hard pressed if it wasn't a favourite compact for many that needed a small, reliable, stylish car at a good price... plus, I've seen TONS of rental Corollas and Sentras here, does that make them bad vehicles?
Dave:
-As is the case with technology (especially new), the general trend is: when something gets more ideal (more power/efficiency/less weight), it gets more expensive... they wouldnt be able to get the range or charging capacity or weight as they plan on getting with the Li-Ion batteries if they used cheaper Nickel-based batteries like everyone else does... Since my laptop has a Lithium based battery, it weighs slightly less, holds charge MUCH better, and isn't prone to heating up since it doesn't work as hard... Are you saying that you would rather have a smaller Nickel battery in your laptop, since you would never have a reason to be away from a power outlet?
-a Diesel engine would be a great combination. As would a small HCCI engine, or a small turbine (VERY efficient at a constant speed)
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Barney 10:01PM (9/03/2007)
"since the battery energy and fuel energy are used to power the vehicle."
Try running your car without the alternator. No it's not an electric motor and no the battery does not run the car, it starts it.
Barney 10:05PM (9/03/2007)
"The Astra is one of the best selling and recognizable vehicles in Europe... I'd be hard pressed if it wasn't a favourite compact for many that needed a small, reliable, stylish car at a good price... plus, I've seen TONS of rental Corollas and Sentras here, does that make them bad vehicles?"
I fully agree. If there is anyway to show the virtues of a car, rent it to the public. I never suggested the Astra would be a lesser vehicle.
Barney 10:09PM (9/03/2007)
"Ford's hybrid had some issues when applying for a patent for certain components, since Toyota already held patents for components that ended up being nearly identical."
I am not convinced that out of the blue two companies come up with identical technology. It would be like two engines from two makers, ended up being identical without either realizing it. Ford coppied the Toyota system and had to pay for it.
jay tee 10:28PM (9/03/2007)
Your definition of hybrid says the combination of two sources of power (ie, energy)... fuel by itself can't run an engine (technically, diesel cycles can, but we aren't really talkign about diesel cycles)... Would you consider a turbine generator or a fuel cell generator in a Volt as a hybrid?
Wierd... the alternator in each of my cars has an output that goes to the BATTERY, leading me to believe that current then flows through the rest of the car. Also, why can alternators be turned on and off depending on load? If an engine ran solely off the alternator, wouldn't an alternator turned off cause the engine to not run? Sure, you could run your car off your alternator.... for a little while... but that would be a waste of an alternator... Batteries can be recharged in a few hours for free.... A fried alternator would have to be replaced
My old '85 started and ran for a little while with a fully charged battery and a plain dead alternator... and it ran, until the battery discharged (luckily enough, the alternator died on a Friday after work, so I had plenty of time to replace)
"The Astra is indeed the choice of several rental car agencies."
Weird... thats not exactly a compliment... nor is it relevant to what SPG said...
jay tee 10:38PM (9/03/2007)
heh.. happens more than you think... I remember back in high school calculus, somebody asked why we had two different notations that represented the exact same thing... Once upon a time, Newton and Leibniz came up with "Calculus," while being in very different countries trying to solve different problems... now if you think that something as small as a given controller or bracket can't be very similar in design, created by two sets of engineers that were virtually taught the same design techniques... well sir, you may be a tad lost
far jr 10:19PM (9/03/2007)
E-flex is a marvelous concept! Virtually any fuel for the small ICEs. CNG, bio-diesel, ethanol, petroleum, hydrogen... all could become avaliable. Or, fuel cells could be used for the generation of electricity. Heck, even more batteries could replace the ICE or fuel cell to create a 100% EV.
Same battery technology, same electric motor technology, same chassis... all combined with so many different fuel sources to match any consumers needs or regional fuel avaliability. This will be a revolutionary step in building a "world" car with many similar components to control design costs, yet be able to adapt easily to vitually any market in the world by using power sources relevant to each market.
Just think same car...
Ethanol in Brazil and the American corn belt
Diesel in Europe
CNG in the Middle East and other natural gas producing regions of the world
Gasoline in Russia, the Middle East, Canada and other oil exporting countries
EV and/or fuel cells in urban regions
Hydrogen in Iceland and other cutting edge markets.
Any region of the world could use thier most readily avaliable fuel supply by simply plunking a different ICE into the E-Flex. Way to think outside the box GM!
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jay tee 10:36PM (9/03/2007)
You win... somebody that actually gets it
Dave 12:20PM (9/04/2007)
Its called hedging your bets.
kballs 4:44PM (9/05/2007)
Homes in the US all have 220v (electric dryers, ovens, furnaces, water heaters, all run on 220v). You just need the right circuit/breaker/outlets for 220v, and if you didn't already have one in your garage, it could be installed (by the homeowner or an electrician) pretty easily.
Hopefully any widely-produced plug-in or electric cars sold here will have dual voltage chargers. It's not that hard, you just need a different cable. Even most of our PCs have dual-voltage 110/220v power supplies.
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