Japan's top two auto makers have a long and sordid history of ripping off each other's successful designs. No sooner had the Nissan Cube become a run away success in its home market than
Now, just weeks after confirming that Toyota does indeed have a successor to the lauded AE86 in the pipeline, Best Car magazine claims to have evidence that Nissan has got a team working on building a new Silvia. Like the final 2002 S15 Spec R Silvia the new car is reckoned to be powered by a turbocharged two-liter good for 247 HP, but will just be 10 kgs heavier at one and a quarter metric tons (2450lbs).
The new range should sell for between 2.5 and 2.8 million Yen ($21,000 - $23,700), but not until 2010. Best Car's scoop ties in nicely with photographs of a shortened Z, most likely a mule testing a new, smaller FR drive train, taken at the ring earlier in the summer. If the new Silvia is indeed to be based on a modified Z/Skyline LM platform, expect a similar wheelbase of 8' 6", but smaller overall dimensions, around 14' 4" long by 5' 8" wide.
Chances of Nissan bringing a concept car, possibly derived from the URGE shown in Detroit last year, to October's Tokyo Motor Show? 60-percet according to the magazine.
[Source: Best Car]
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geo.stewart @ Aug 13th 2007 9:14AM
the true spiritual successors to the Pony Wars of the 60s. not those bloated beasts carrying the mustang and camaro badges today.
Kevin @ Aug 13th 2007 1:11PM
"Bloated beasts" huh? Let's take a look...
1967 Camaro (350ci) Curb Weight: 3,384lbs (1535kg)
2002 Camaro (Z-28) Curb Weight: 3,439lbs (1560lg)
Weight gain: 55lbs (30kg); 1.6%
1965 GTO (convertible)Curb Weight: 3700lbs (1678kg)
2005 GTO Curb Weight: 3725lbs (1690kg)
Weight Gain: 25lbs (11kg); 0.7%
1965 Corvette (Unspecified V8) Curb Weight: 3230lbs (1465kg)
2007 Corvettes (LS2, LS7) Curb Weight: 3150-3300lbs (1429kg-1497kg)
Weight Gain: -80lbs-70lbs (-36kg-32kg); -2.5%-2%
So far, not so bad. Considering the huge number of additional safety features and options and just the added "stuff" on today's cars, I'd say your claim is totally unfounded.
...Then I found this:
1964 Mustang (Unspecified V8) Curb Weight: 3000lbs (1360kg)
2007 Mustang (GT) Curb Weight: 3575lbs (1621kg)
Weight gain: 575lbs (261kg); 19%
So. I'll grant you that the Mustang is a pig. On the other hand though, given the amount of additonal equipment on the '07 vs. the original, 500lbs isn't too bad. It just shows that either Ford's engineers aren't as good as GM's, or their bean counters are cheaper, or both. My money is on both.
Regardless. Calling the new cars bloated is not necessarily accurate, as I've just proven. I don't think that the Japanese cars will ever become the successors-spiritual or otherwise-of American muscle. The philosophy behind the cars is totally different, and the end product is different, even if the performance winds up being the same.
And personally, If I had to choose one car to drive every day, I'd rather have a Camaro (well, Firebird... I'm not a huge Camaro fan; I've always thought the Pontiacs looked better), Corvette or GTO than this Nissan, or the Toyota. And no, before anyone says it, I'm not some knuckle-dragging "American cars always have been and always will be better than everything else because I said so!" retard; I do have an American car (a '73 Buick, to be precise) but I also have a Mercedes and a STI. My loyalties lie not with one brand or another (though there are certain brands I would likely never look at or own... *cough*Ford*cough*), but with what I enjoy driving. Regardless of what country it's made in.
naggs @ Aug 13th 2007 1:51PM
yeah, uhm that are totally different types of vehicle. that would be like saying a mustang is the spiritual successor to the 250 gto...
i would say that the real spritual successor to the muscle car wars are the f150 lightnings and ram srt 10s.
these new pony cars are all around g machines.
FRFan @ Aug 13th 2007 2:02PM
@Kevin,
The curb weight for all of those models you listed is at least as much, or more, than a modern Toyota Camry (around 3,200lbs). Some of them are over 1000lbs heavier than the 2,450lbs Nissan mentioned in the article. I don't think you understand the concept of bloated, especially in the context of this article. The cars you mentioned are literally obese by comparison.
geo.stewart @ Aug 13th 2007 2:43PM
@kevin
the V6 comparison is more telling:
2570 for the 1965 vs 3420 for an 2006 AT V-6, a 33% increase. that is substantial. AND as was noted, when compared to several 4-door midsize sedans, the mustang is a couple hundred pounds heavier.
AND, I mentioned Pony car wars, Mustang and Camaro, not muscle cars with big blocks: GTO, Chevelle,...
The mustang was based off of the small car platform available at the time. The same cannot be said today, for better, worse, or indifferent.
I'm a huge mustang fan (had 3 in the family), and love the design of the last generation Firebirds. I also own a GenIV Jetta GLI so I too have no predilections.
Kevin @ Aug 13th 2007 2:53PM
@FRFan:
I suppose it depends on how you want to look at it-bloated in reference to the Nissan, or in reference to what the cars have always been? The Mustang has obviously gained a bunch of weight, but the Camaro, at least as far as I know, stayed pretty well constant at about 3200-3500lbs for its entire production run.
3500lbs isn't excessive, imo. 2450 is just extremely light. And you also have to consider that the last-generation Camaro was probably a good foot and a half or two feet longer than the Nissan. The Nissan is a very, very tiny car.
My point was simply that the Camaro/Firebird, GTO and Corvette aren't really to any great degree any more 'bloated' than they ever were, ESPECIALLY when you consider that the modern cars have things like airbags, a/c and power windows as standard equipment, abs, much stronger safety cages, all the extra emissions equipment (air pumps, egr, cats, etc.), and everything else that goes into a modern car that was either optional or unavailable when these cars were in their infancy.
Now, whether they're overweight when taken out of that context is an entirely different matter and it comes down to personal opinion. I don't find 3300lbs unreasonable for a car the size of the Corvette that has a V8 and all of the safety/emissions/comfort equipment that it does. Would you call a 911 bloated? The 997 C4s weighs in at 3252lbs ...
To me anything that weighs in much under 2900 or 3000lbs is a pretty light car; under 2500 is damn light. 3000-3500, even 4000 in some cases is pretty reasonable as far as I'm concerned.
Don @ Aug 13th 2007 9:12PM
Well, none of y'all get upset when this supposed Silvia gets here and gets whooped by a Mustang GT.
Maestro1 @ Aug 13th 2007 9:33PM
@ don
We wouldn't get upset, because the Mustang GT as stock is not in the same range as the Sylvia, nor is it in the same price range. Its more comparable to a base mustang and IMO the base mustang looks chunky and squarish for some reason, I think the little cosmetic modifications on the GT make it look better.
CAV @ Aug 14th 2007 12:57AM
You seem pretty caught up in a 2450 lb curb weight. The article indicates 2750 lb (1250 kg). The autoblog author mostly likely converted from metric incorrectly.
Alex @ Aug 13th 2007 9:18AM
do it nissan! DO IT!!!
THIS COULD BE THE TRUE REBIRTH OF RWD!!!
Then again, I saw an article stating the same thing about four years ago. But with the Japanese spearheading it, it just might happen.
stefan @ Aug 13th 2007 9:21AM
I always loved the silvia even more than the skyline, especialy the s15 spec r. But the s13 was also very nice.
Will @ Aug 13th 2007 9:22AM
Cheap, lightweight RWD coupes are good for everyone. I really hope Toyota and Nissan build these new Hachis and Silvias and bring them to the U.S. to help prove that their predecessors are legendary for a reason.
Maybe Subaru can even sell an AWD version. I'd absolutely buy one.
Ebm14 @ Aug 13th 2007 10:53PM
@ Will:
I drove the new Impreza and it felt really nice inside & out but now it is all grown up, and there are still people who crave the old 2 door feel. Ever since the 2 door Impreza went 4 door and the SVU ( I think that is the name) went invisible, it is time for a major comeback.
Subaru with its power, performance and reliability can do wonders in this segment and I will be at the dealer
with a big check in my hand.
Owen @ Aug 13th 2007 9:28AM
That is one nice design, with the hardware to back it up, it would be on my short list.
Ligor @ Aug 13th 2007 9:58AM
It does have some nice looks to it
and I hope the 247HP is real as well
stefan @ Aug 13th 2007 9:35AM
A 2.0 liter turbo is got to be the SR20VET, it make's 280BHP in the X-trail GT they probably need to detune it to 250BHP to meet emission regulations.
doglet @ Aug 13th 2007 1:50PM
guys, the sr20 is done. the QR is the new nissan 4 banger, get used to it.
dont expect any 250 hp versions of this car. nissan will make sure to gimp it with only n/a 4 cyl to seperate it from the Z.
expect 170 and 200 hp 2.5 liter 4 cyl
FRFan @ Aug 13th 2007 2:03PM
200hp is plenty for a car that weighs a hair under 2,500lbs. The VW GTI and Civic Si both do pretty well with around 200, and they weigh more (the GTI much more). And you can bet the QR has a lot more torque than the KA in the Si's bay.
spdracerut @ Aug 13th 2007 9:38AM
Nissan definitely needs to bring a Silvia back! There's not a single all-around performance worthy RWD coupe that you can buy currently in a 'low' price range.
You can buy a 350Z for mid-upper 20's but it's way too heavy (and still too expensive). Don't even need to say anything about the Mustang.
~250hp, ~2500lbs, RWD turbo and for less than 25k? Where do I buy one?!
Trojan man @ Aug 13th 2007 9:46AM
There's plenty of overweight, overpriced, underperforming, japanese and american cars on the road today. I really hope this is the next trend - moderately powered lightweight cars that leave a lot of room for aftermarket support. It's so much easier to add power than to trim weight and make performance beasts!