Filed under: Etc.
Confessions of an automotive quality engineer
Photo used for illustrative purposes only. Not one of the actual plants from article.
Ever wonder how seriously the workers really take their jobs on the automotive assembly lines of the world? Seriously, do they really think about us consumers when they are bolting together that subassembly? Are there definitive differences between the way domestic and import vehicles are made that we can really see in the finished product? Well, even if you haven't wondered, we have. And so has Christopher Neiger of AOL Autos. To get some answers, he interviewed an automotive quality engineer who has worked in several plants around the world, for domestic and import manufacturers. His findings are really fascinating. Click over to read the whole story, but let us tell you that there are definite differences between the imports and domestics, that the workers do care about the finished product, and that there are many more parts to this equation than we might imagine. It's well worth the clicking 'Read' below.
[Source: AOL Autos]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
AlexP 1:40PM (7/28/2007)
That was quite a nice read, but I still hate Toyota. :V
I pretty much respect all the other imports, though.
But of course, who cares about what I think of Toyota.
Reply
whofan 1:51PM (7/28/2007)
I do , Toyota sucks! In reality they are no worse than any other car but no better either. As far as style they down right suck.
Mayur 3:38PM (7/28/2007)
If you hate Toyota and you are a Domestic fanboy then you must only drive a Mopar. You obviously know nothing about Toyotas or who've they worked with.
Also I would rather be driving my Toyota than having it sit in a repair shop.
whofan 5:31PM (7/28/2007)
I do drive a Mopar. And I rather be pushed in a Dodge than drive a Toyota.
I don`t have a choice to buy an American TV or much of anything else. I will buy American vehicles as long as I have that choice.
Mike 11:35AM (7/30/2007)
I don't get your comment Mayur. I dislike Toyota more than any other manufacturer, and would call myself a domestic fan, but that doesn't mean I don't like some imports, they just happen to be German for the most part. And being that I hate Toyota and disagree with your comment about the reliability of a Toyota I drive a GM product thats six years old with 57k on the odometer, it still has yet to see a service center for anything other than an oil change. And its not just my bias towards domestic products, I used to sell Toyota's and experienced just as many problems with them as I have any other manufacture. Granted a Japanese vehicle may statistically may have fewer problems, but the difference isn't all that significant today as it may have been in years past. Please pull yourself out of 1983 and get with the times, domestics are doing much better than the products you must be acquainted with.
iQuack 2:22PM (7/28/2007)
If it weren't for the superior quality of imports--especially Honda and Toyota, most domestic cars would still be crap the way they were when imports began grabbing market share. Competition is a necessary economic ingredient.
It's safe to buy a GM car now and maybe a Ford or Chrysler car, too, but they lost business because their cars were inferior to the Hondas and Toyotas that people preferred.
Maybe there are reasons for substandard domestic cars in the past--a combination of bad management and greedy unions--but most car buyers just want a good car for their money, and domestic car makers dug a deep hole for themselves selling crap for many years.
Now the domestics have to be BETTER than their import brand competitors to climb out of the hole they dug for themselves.
As for the "BUY AMERICAN" loyalists, many of us are happy to be loyal to the American workers who build Hondas and Toyotas in the U.S. If the UAW feels the pain, well, that's just too damn bad!
Reply
Ben 2:28PM (7/28/2007)
The article mentions that a domestic and import car produced on the same line are of the same quality - that's not necessarily true. An article came out a while ago...forget where, USA Today or Money maybe...that looked at the NUMMI plant, which produced Corolla's and Geo Prism's side by side for a while. Although they were on the same production line, the finished Corolla got pulled off the side for more quality checks whereas the domestic cars did not.
Reply
Barney 3:58PM (7/28/2007)
Wasn't that Corolla and Nova?
whofan 6:37PM (7/28/2007)
At one time is was the Nova. Then it was the Prism. I think the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix is produced at this plant.
Honda Lover 2:37PM (7/28/2007)
Uh huh...I know the die hard domestic homers on here are going to blow a gasket over this, bu here's a dude who actually worked for both domestic and imports and he flat out confirms what many of us critics of domestics have been saying about the quality of American cars. Sure, domestics have made strides to improve quality, but it's only because they HAVE to. If they had no competition from the Japanese, we'd be driving junk. That's not to say Japanese build a perfect car. Honda has had their share of problems. But quality is ingrained into the Japanese where it's not with the Domestics.
Reply
Drewboy 3:09PM (7/28/2007)
"Honda has had their share of problems."
Luckily for me, not my Honda! But then, I haven't had problems with my Ford either.
Alberto 2:51PM (7/28/2007)
When Louis Rukeyser interviewd Wagoner about 3 years ago about the quality of the imports and what it has meant to the Domestic industry Wagoner did not hold back. He said the domestics neglected quality for a very very long time and only the marketshare erosion has waked them up finally into making decent products. He said the Japanese competition has finally imbeded the idea of quality products into GM and that GM has finally put quality before other factors going forward. That was 3 years ago. With new GM products coming out now I applaud him.
So here is a wrap:
The Public perception that USA made crap from 1960-2000
The consumer reports that USA made crap from 1960- 2000
All car magazines that consistently atleast in the past put USA dead last in comparison tests
And now engineers that have actually worked for these companies unlike most of you and swear there has been a quality gap between imports and domestics
You domestic fannyboys still want to live in your woodshed and not admit that USA made crap for a very long time and it will take a long time to change this perception. You want people to flock to Ford because of the Edge. No it doesn't work that way. It takes time to win the trust of people and no amount of advertising will fix this. The domestics need to concentrate on R&D and keep building superior products and maybe 5 years from now see an uptick in marketshare.
Reply
dakota 3:17PM (7/28/2007)
So you import fanboys want to keep turning your blind eye to import issues then also? Regardless of where the car was produced or who it was made from there are going to be issues.
That One Person 3:33PM (7/28/2007)
You know what's funny? I am a "Domestic Fanboy" and I (and many others) realize that the Big 3 have been building inferior vehicles up until only a few years ago. I wouldn't say 1960 was the starting point. Maybe the early 70s. But what the import butt kissers have to realize is that the imports weren't exactly the "shining beacons" of quality when they first came to our shores. Sure, they got great gas mileage. That was the biggest draw. But most of those older Hondas, Toyos and Nissan/Datsuns were piles of crap. And it wasn't until the 90s that the imports actually started gaining a huge percentage of the market share. Remember the Taurus? Best selling car up until 1996 or so. How about the Escort? I believe it outsold a lot of the import econboxes.
Quality of the imports didn't skyrocket until the 90s. But unfortunately for Toyota, their quality is starting to slip. Honda is holding their own (which is good). And Nissan seems a little shifty. But what a lot of the import butt kissers also don't realize is that the Big 3 (with the exception of Chrysler) are gaining ground...and pretty quick, too. Heck, even Kia/Hyundai have made huge strides.
I respect Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia/Hyundai and Mitsu for what they do. But I also respect the Big 3. But what a lot of people realize (and this guy doesn't know everyone from the Big 3) is that the domestics do take pride in what they do. I know a few Ford and GM factory workers and they would do ANYTHING for their company...
Derek 3:44PM (7/28/2007)
I wouldn't say domestics made crap from '60-'00. More like '80-'00 or '75-'00.
I have bought (well used) a number of domestic cars from the '60-'80 time and every one has been excellent. They all seem to hold up better than any Japanese imports I have seen or owned from the same era. The domestics have also had less rust and were actually built very well.
Now, I will grant that the imports from back then are quite fun to drive - very light and responsive. Too bad that is long gone and the imports have bloated to the same heavy weights as most domestics these days.
Simon 3:45PM (7/28/2007)
That One Person
I think you are wrong. The imports in the 70s and 80s were awesome cars. Honda civics and CRXs and Accords and Camrys from the 80s are still on the road today in good condition. The perception in the 80s was that imports sucked but those that owned one were very happy. The guy is right, perception is about 10 years behind reality, thats all. In the 80s rural America looked down on Jap Crap even though they weren't crap. Now America looks down on Domestic crap even though it's not crap.
I don't expect the majority of people that are not autobloggers to change their minds on a dime.
Anyways, Toyota is not as bad as you say and when you look at their full lineup they are good from top to bottom. GM is very good now. But ford is only half as good. Edge and Fusion not withstanding, many of Fords products are still old school so Ford is about 2 years away.
Jordan 3:52PM (7/28/2007)
Wow this blog just points out how Alberto is right.
Everyone and their dog including engineers, workers, analysts, domestic CEOs, reporters, and the public admits the Big 3 made junk for so many years yet guys still comeout saying "no no no this is wrong I owned this and that and it went 600k with only gas and oil change."
Give it up people. The Japanese were and are not as bad as you say and the domestics are not as awesome as you say now. Most cars now are good cars no matter what. Everything is decent and we have the cometitiveness of the market to thank for that because we as consumers have benefited. If Detroit had not hit its head to the curb they would not be making decent vehicles now. Thats a fact.
Barney 4:04PM (7/28/2007)
dakota @ Jul 28th 2007 3:17PM
So you import fanboys want to keep turning your blind eye to import issues then also?
The point being that these issues are far less. If you stopped to read some of the comments, then you would be aware that no one is saying "imports" (if you prefer to call a made in America that) are problem free. They are just more reliable and on their own merit.
That One Person 4:13PM (7/28/2007)
Simon...I should have worded my response better. I will have to agree, the old school Civics, CRXs, Corollas and such were a blast to drive. But to me, that doesn't have much to do with quality.
You have to admit they were shoddy cars that rusted out within five years. I havent seen many 1980 Hondas, Nissan/Datsuns or Toyotas in good condition. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I live in Michigan...a state that sure loves it's salt. When I was looking for a car, I tried locating a CRX and an old school Corolla. But all the examples I found needed heavy body work.
Also, the quality of those cars were bottom of the barrel. Dont get me wrong, I think old school Hondas, Toyotas and Nissan/Datsuns are fun to drive but man, talk about basic interiors and what not. And yes, I do realize that the domestics were the same.
I also agree with Jordan. But I do have to add that I have driven nothing but domestics. And all my friends (but two) own domestics. None of had problems. I can't really say the same thing about the imports (blown tranny before 25k miles and a severe case of engine sludge). Dont get me wrong, pal, I do like imports and will consider them when I get a new car.
Barney 4:12PM (7/28/2007)
Derek @ Jul 28th 2007 3:44PM
I wouldn't say domestics made crap from '60-'00.
But they were. Fit and finish were oxymoron's when describing these cars. Unmatched sheet metal and interior trim that was applied with total disregard of the final finish. I can remember listening to a Chrysler commercial on about how they imprioved their quality. I was sitting in a new K Car at the time and was totaly disgusted as to how the dash pressed against the left door and a 1" gap on the right side.