Diesel engines in passenger cars are making a US comeback, with companies like Honda and VW developing new diesels that meet stringent clean air standards. GM has decided to get in the diesel act as well, and blogger Bob waited until the last minute to discuss diesel plans on his video blog on Fastlane. Before spilling the beans on the General's future oil-burning motors, Mr. Lutz first listed several reasons why diesel engines are becoming increasingly less feasible due to tough Tier 5 Bin 2 emissions and escalating technology costs. He then explained how direct injection and Homogeneous Stratified Charge (compression ignition) would all but close the fuel efficiency gap between gas and diesel powerplants.
At the very end of the video blog, Mr. Lutz stated that GM was working on a diesel V6 for crossovers and passanger cars and a 4.5L V8 for SUVs and light trucks. We say bring on the fancy new emissions and fuel-saving technology, so the market can determine which technology was best. Check out blogger Bob's diesel lesson after the jump.
[Source: Auto News (subscription req'd)]
Spy Shots: Production Audi TT Clubsport Quattro
Chevy Camaro getting early unveil at Indy in September
James Garner recovering from mild stroke
VIDEO: God's ringtone is a V10-powered Audi R8
IIHS releases official results on the smart fortwo
First Drive: 2009 Ford Escapes, more of almost everything
Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy
In the Autoblog Garage: 2008 Ford Shelby GT500 Mustang
Future Classic: 1984 Chrysler Minivans
_thumbnail.jpg "Lamborghini Reventon unboxed in Las Vegas")
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Infinihertz @ Jul 13th 2007 11:21AM
This seems remarkably similar to this article from yesterday: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/12/video-in-the-fastlane-iii-bobs-not-big-on-diesels-future-in-t/
(it's the same video).
bmoredlj @ Jul 13th 2007 11:31AM
Forgive me, but to say that technology should never advance because it's too costly is just ridiculous. Where has being cautious and conservative and CHEAP gotten GM lately? NOWHERE! You can't make progress on the cheap.
Putz is seemingly holding back GM from the big steps it needs to take to get back on the cutting edge of innovation and real-world solutions to conservation and energy independence. That means increasing efficiency and diversifying powertrains: hybrids, electrics, diesels, and fuel cells. Heck, how about turbines? Yutz has been very pessimistic about any kind of progress of late.
A pessimistic executive who is holding back the company shouldn't be retained, he should get the boot. Quit whining about how anything and everything that will make the company more competetive is too expensive, or get lost.
Dave @ Jul 13th 2007 11:50AM
GM is still going forward with diesel R&D.
Lutz is simply answering a question from someone who seems to believe that diesels will solve all of GMs CAFE problems.
Lutz tries to make it clear that diesels arent the only game in town. And their efficiency is handicapped by emmissions regulations.
Bottom line - GM is pursuing diesel engines of all sizes, dual mode hybrids (started with Allison buses and proceeding to large trucks and SUVs), series hybrids (Volt), homogeneous stratifed charge engines, and hydrogen technology.
In the long run, diesel is not the answer because:
1. It relies on either oil from the mideast or biodiesel which cannot be produced in sufficient quantity without depleting valuable farmland.
2. Emmissions will never be as clean as hydrogen/electric fueled from nukes and/or the sun and other renewables.
Jruhi4 @ Jul 13th 2007 11:38AM
For those that aren't registered with or subscribers to Automotive News, the same article has been posted on sister publication AutoWeek:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070712/FREE/70712005/1024
Avinash machado @ Jul 13th 2007 11:47AM
Thanks Jruhi4.
Lithous @ Jul 13th 2007 12:08PM
"For those that aren't registered with or subscribers to Automotive News, the same article has been posted on sister publication AutoWeek:"
Is it a badge engineering job? I.e. did they just slap the same write-up from the paid site to the free site? If so, if that was GM then hell would be paid for badge engineering so blatantly. You know, the folks that pay money for Automotive News deserve a little more than those who don't pay at autoweek don't you think?
LMAO. I know, you guys weren't "trained" to care about it from anyone else but the domestic car companies. Don't worry, I understand.
Jruhi4 @ Jul 13th 2007 1:13PM
Lithous:
Both Automotive News and AutoWeek are owned by the same publisher (Crain Communications, if I'm not mistaken).
Automotive News' website has 3 "classes" of articles: Free for the General Public (these are rare, and mostly major auto show articles), articles for Registered users (mostly posted Tuesday thru Friday), and (the majority): articles for Subscribers only. The latter are usually posted on Mondays.
Crain Communications, however, tends to "give" the new product and consumer-oriented articles among the Monday subscriber articles to "sister" publication AutoWeek, which will usually spread them out on Tuesday thru Friday that same week.
Henry @ Jul 13th 2007 11:55AM
1 gallon of gasoline = 124,000 Btu
1 gallon of diesel fuel = 139,000 Btu
How is Lutz going to overcome the fact that diesel fuel contains greater energy than gasoline? Direct ignition and HSC will decrease the gap in efficiency, however, they will not change the energy advantage of diesel fuel. In addition, the direct injection and HSC engines are more costly to produce.
Lutz stated urea is required to meet tier 2 bin 5, Not so for Honda or VW which are both introducing diesel engines that use catalyst to meet t2b5 without the use of urea, and they will do so in vehicles on the market in 2008 calendar year, not GM's 2010.
GM is going to be late to the party, higher cost, and inferior engine technology too!
Guenther @ Jul 13th 2007 12:46PM
VW and Honda PLAN on doing so. Until 50 state cars show up in Dealer lots, its all academics. The MB 320 BLUETEC launch took for EVER. Also, NOx catalysts big enough for a V8 cost a bloody fortune.
I would really like to see the 2.9L V6 make it into the Theta (Outlook/Acadia/Enclave) and the next generation midsize truck.
Jay @ Jul 13th 2007 3:03PM
When Toyota or Honda say they will deliver, they do. I can't speak for VW, but I bet they will too. It's not like the delay one gets from the detroit 3 when they can't R&D the solutions they promise, primarily in engine tech.
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jul 13th 2007 12:39PM
Tier 5 bin 2 emissions standards are only tough for Diesels.
They aren't tough. Tier 5 bin 2 emissions are only as tough as the AVERAGE vehicle sold last year outside the CARB zone!
I think Lutz is right about the future advances of gas engines. It's going to be difficult to sell Diesels in passenger cars once gas engines reach these new levels. As an example. the 2.0 DI Turbo engine in the Solstice Redline gets better mpg than the 2.4 non-turbo in the regular Solstice, despite making 261HP instead of 190HP and having a reduced compression ratio (as it is a turbo). And this engine hasn't even implemented any lean burn (like the compression ignition) yet, partially because until recently the sulfur in our gas prevented even trying any of this.
Henry:
These new higher tech gas engines do cost more than regular gas engines to produce. This is because use things like high pressure fuel rails. However, none of these are things a Diesel doesn't have, so unless you think Diesels are prohibitively expensive right now, it isn't going tomake gas engines prohibitively expensive. In addition, with these techniques it will still be possible to make normally aspirated gas engines that perform very well, unlike with Diesels. Whereas with Diesels, a turbo is strictly necessary to have decent performance without an enormous motor. So these gas engines will still have production cost advantages over Diesels.
As to the BTU difference, there's no way to overcome it. However, the fact that Diesel has more energy means as Diesel demand rises to the higher levels, the price of Diesel will rise to reflect the fact it takes more oil (more HCs) to make a gallon of Diesel than gas. Diesels will get 12% better mpg and a gallon of Diesel will cost about 12% more.
It'll be interesting to see where all this heads. There's going to be a lot of competing technologies out there in the marketplace. I would most like to see one that can use electric energy ever these competing gas, Diesel and ethanol cars. When we get our energy from electricity, we have lots of choices as to how to generate it, instead of depending on the Middle East or on crop yields.
I mean, right now, if I want to get from San Jose to San Francisco, I have lots of options as to how to do it. There's taking a car, a bus and Caltrain (BART doesn't do this route). All of these have one thing in common: ALL are powered by fossil fuels.
We have to break this cycle. If we were to suffer a lack of oil, it would bring things to a stop. I'd ether have to walk or fight over meager supplies of french fry grease to get there. We need to have other ways to get there that can run off electricty, which could then be generated from solar, wind, nukes, even coal. Anything we have at least some control over. Electric cars should be viable, or at least hydrogen buses. And our trains should definitely be electric.
calebe @ Jul 13th 2007 2:51PM
I know diesel isnt as glam as the hydrogen or Volt power trains but I think they would be unwise to over look it. I know older GM buyers may never go diesel again after the V8 and V6 diesels of the '80s. That doesnt mean younger buyers wouldnt.
Jay @ Jul 13th 2007 3:05PM
They are only handicapped by emissions because GM doesn't have a patent on the technology that Honda developed in 2003 or earlier. Again, they have the Euro Accord diesel that gets teh equivilant of 52.3mpg stateside:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/06/new-accord-diesel-to-hit-60-mpg/
Onell @ Jul 13th 2007 3:19PM
Toyota Prius buyers pay the premium of the car because it's a fuel efficient. If GM will bring their gas sipping diesel cars, which are available in Europe here in N.A. then that's the time they can compare what really car buyers want - a diesel or a hybrid.
66coronet @ Jul 13th 2007 5:00PM
I hope the V-6 they are looking into is that VM/GM 2.9L crd that cadillac is using.
Nice motor to put in colorado, H3, impaula, laCross and like vehicles.
Kotse @ Jul 13th 2007 7:16PM
And I thought GM is on a genuine "rebound" in how to do the car business right...
Looks like Mr.Lutz regressive "diesel thinking" harkens the old, narrowed thinking ways of old..
Till they realize they/GM had lost again in huge sales $$ to the Europeans and Asian carmakers.
GM seems to like the habit of chasing "leaders" in the industry..
---
p.s.This must reflect the current sad state of American Technology & knowhow..
jm99 @ Jul 13th 2007 7:31PM
Two minor corrections; sorry for my obsessive-compulsive tendencies!
1. to the author -- it's Tier 2, Bin 5, not Tier 5 Bin 2.
2. to Guenther (post #9) -- it's Lambda, not Theta, as the platform for the Enclave/Acadia/Outlook.
Guenther @ Jul 14th 2007 12:20PM
ugh!- you got me. I must be slipping....